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One question - why didn't Bitcoin drop to zero? I know, VHS survive and Betamax didn't, but unlike Betamax, Ethereum is pretty popular for everything, not just

One question - why didn't Bitcoin drop to zero? I know, VHS survive and Betamax didn't, but unlike Betamax, Ethereum is pretty popular for everything, not just for low-class commodity speculation.

nkrebs13 6y ago
This ecosystem is rapidly developing and changing; I think there's still plenty of time for BTC/ETH/LTC/XRP/etc to all exist anywhere from [0,∞). The narrative that is often pushed forward is that they have different use cases. Bitcoin is a limited-supply store of value (analogous to precious metals). BTC blockchain isn't well suited for quick transactions, but it is the blockchain that is the most robust and secure. Ethereum, being Turing complete, provides an ecosystem on which other applications can be built.
companyhen 6y ago
Bitcoin is the gateway into crypto. Check the marketcap, and all the pairs are tied to BTC on most major exchanges. It's also the most secure and has the largest community. It's use case is different than Ethereum's.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  >>It's also the most secure and has the largest community. Ethereum's mining fees exceed Bitcoin's: https://cryptofees.info/ https://cryptofees.info/ That would mean it has better long-term security prospects than Bitcoin, as security is proportional the revenue earned by validators.
  - alexmat 6y ago
    That's misleading. If you factor in mining rewards, Bitcoin has much higher fees per transaction. A total of $18,000,000 more per day spent on validating Bitcoin transactions than what that website claims.
    - CryptoPunk 6y ago
      In the case of Bitcoin, mining rewards decline geometrically, at a rate of 50% every 4 years. Mining fees are what any cryptocurrency with an inflation rate that rapidly declines to zero/close-to-zero depends on for security on any appreciable time scale. That's why I said that Ethereum's long-term security prospects are better. Its mining fees have exceeded Bitcoin's and with the multi-pronged efforts to further scale Ethereum - that are vastly more promising than Bitcoin's - there is a high likelihood of these fees further increasing their gap with Bitcoin's.
woah 6y ago
There still isn't a lot of real-world use of crypto. Even all the DeFi stuff on Ethereum, while innovative, is derivatives on speculative crypto assets. As long as speculation is the main thing going on in crypto, BTC is king, since it is purely speculative, has the best name recognition, and doesn't try to hide that fact.
- TheColorYellow 6y ago
  This is a big deal to me. I'm watching keenly to see when the crypto market makes the turn out of niche market space and into the mainstream. Perhaps Eth2 is one of the starting blocks that is needed...
- capnorange 6y ago
  how about getting a higher interest on your savings account using defi on your usdc? Isn't this a real world use case?
  - woah 6y ago
    That's as much of a use case as "get rich from dogecoin". Both of them are based on speculation. The "high interest" is just a derivative that shapes the speculation a certain way. Underlying it is still people speculating on cryptocurrency. It's different from a conventional bank account, because there the returns are (theoretically) coming from the bank loaning it to entrepreneurs to buy factory and farming equipment and create value.
    - capnorange 6y ago
      The difference from "get rich from dogecoin" is that there is no downside(aside from smart contract risk). You could however be morally against earning interest through others speculating. In that case you could still earn better interest by just by being USDC-sUSD LP on curve.fi.
- Benmcdonald__ 6y ago
  Agree on all point. Especially with Ethereums great innovations in marketing. Sadly their technical innovations are lacking beyond smoke and mirrors
nemo1618 6y ago
Less is more. What distinguishes Bitcoin from most cryptocurrencies is that a) It has a (relatively) simple goal -- sound money -- and thus less attack surface; and b) Its community is fiercely conservative, to the point that major changes to Bitcoin (e.g. increasing the total supply) are completely off the table. These properties inspire confidence, making Bitcoin a much safer bet than any other cryptocurrency.
dmihal 6y ago
Bitcoin isn't valuable because of its technical properties, just like gold isn't valuable because of its physical properties. Both are valuable because of their universally recognized scarcity and value. If you want to put your wealth in a SoV cryptocurrency, Bitcoin is the clear schelling point. Ether will remain competitive with BTC, it may even flip it in market cap, but I doubt Bitcoin will ever go away.
- kgilpin 6y ago
  Bitcoin is valuable because of its value?
  - wocram 6y ago
    Just like USD :)
    - blueterminal 6y ago
      You must pay taxes in USD. BTC and USD are really not comparable.
      - ric2b 6y ago
        You must pay for Bitcoin transaction fees with BTC, same idea different scale, I guess. I don't think taxes justify the value of a state currency, otherwise the value would fluctuate wildly when close to tax season.

One question - why didn't Bitcoin drop to zero? I know, VHS survive and Betamax didn't, but unlike Betamax, Ethereum is pretty popular for everything, not just for low-class commodity speculation.

nkrebs13 6y ago

This ecosystem is rapidly developing and changing; I think there's still plenty of time for BTC/ETH/LTC/XRP/etc to all exist anywhere from [0,∞). The narrative that is often pushed forward is that they have different use cases. Bitcoin is a limited-supply store of value (analogous to precious metals). BTC blockchain isn't well suited for quick transactions, but it is the blockchain that is the most robust and secure. Ethereum, being Turing complete, provides an ecosystem on which other applications can be built.

companyhen 6y ago

Bitcoin is the gateway into crypto. Check the marketcap, and all the pairs are tied to BTC on most major exchanges. It's also the most secure and has the largest community. It's use case is different than Ethereum's.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
>>It's also the most secure and has the largest community. Ethereum's mining fees exceed Bitcoin's: https://cryptofees.info/ https://cryptofees.info/ That would mean it has better long-term security prospects than Bitcoin, as security is proportional the revenue earned by validators.
- alexmat 6y ago
  That's misleading. If you factor in mining rewards, Bitcoin has much higher fees per transaction. A total of $18,000,000 more per day spent on validating Bitcoin transactions than what that website claims.
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    In the case of Bitcoin, mining rewards decline geometrically, at a rate of 50% every 4 years. Mining fees are what any cryptocurrency with an inflation rate that rapidly declines to zero/close-to-zero depends on for security on any appreciable time scale. That's why I said that Ethereum's long-term security prospects are better. Its mining fees have exceeded Bitcoin's and with the multi-pronged efforts to further scale Ethereum - that are vastly more promising than Bitcoin's - there is a high likelihood of these fees further increasing their gap with Bitcoin's.

woah 6y ago

There still isn't a lot of real-world use of crypto. Even all the DeFi stuff on Ethereum, while innovative, is derivatives on speculative crypto assets. As long as speculation is the main thing going on in crypto, BTC is king, since it is purely speculative, has the best name recognition, and doesn't try to hide that fact.

TheColorYellow 6y ago
This is a big deal to me. I'm watching keenly to see when the crypto market makes the turn out of niche market space and into the mainstream. Perhaps Eth2 is one of the starting blocks that is needed...
capnorange 6y ago
how about getting a higher interest on your savings account using defi on your usdc? Isn't this a real world use case?
- woah 6y ago
  That's as much of a use case as "get rich from dogecoin". Both of them are based on speculation. The "high interest" is just a derivative that shapes the speculation a certain way. Underlying it is still people speculating on cryptocurrency. It's different from a conventional bank account, because there the returns are (theoretically) coming from the bank loaning it to entrepreneurs to buy factory and farming equipment and create value.
  - capnorange 6y ago
    The difference from "get rich from dogecoin" is that there is no downside(aside from smart contract risk). You could however be morally against earning interest through others speculating. In that case you could still earn better interest by just by being USDC-sUSD LP on curve.fi.
Benmcdonald__ 6y ago
Agree on all point. Especially with Ethereums great innovations in marketing. Sadly their technical innovations are lacking beyond smoke and mirrors

nemo1618 6y ago

Less is more. What distinguishes Bitcoin from most cryptocurrencies is that a) It has a (relatively) simple goal -- sound money -- and thus less attack surface; and b) Its community is fiercely conservative, to the point that major changes to Bitcoin (e.g. increasing the total supply) are completely off the table. These properties inspire confidence, making Bitcoin a much safer bet than any other cryptocurrency.

dmihal 6y ago

Bitcoin isn't valuable because of its technical properties, just like gold isn't valuable because of its physical properties. Both are valuable because of their universally recognized scarcity and value. If you want to put your wealth in a SoV cryptocurrency, Bitcoin is the clear schelling point. Ether will remain competitive with BTC, it may even flip it in market cap, but I doubt Bitcoin will ever go away.

kgilpin 6y ago
Bitcoin is valuable because of its value?
- wocram 6y ago
  Just like USD :)
  - blueterminal 6y ago
    You must pay taxes in USD. BTC and USD are really not comparable.
    - ric2b 6y ago
      You must pay for Bitcoin transaction fees with BTC, same idea different scale, I guess. I don't think taxes justify the value of a state currency, otherwise the value would fluctuate wildly when close to tax season.