7 ms·

> It will restart itself even if a user launched application is running. This was a huge problem, for me. Some multiaxis CNC toolpaths require days to generate

> It will restart itself even if a user launched application is running. This was a huge problem, for me. Some multiaxis CNC toolpaths require days to generate. I missed a critical deadline as a result of Windows 10 deciding to update itself, which finally prompted me to install ShutUp10 from O&O. I use the maximum shit-disabling mode in ShutUp10. It works. Once or twice a year, I run Windows Update and get updates, then I run ShutUp10 again and disable all the trash Microsoft re-enables. https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

vvwvvwvvw 6y ago
why is your cnc machine internet connected?
kmonsen 6y ago
Just say your network connection is metered, and that windows should not auto-install updates from metered connections.
- pavel_lishin 6y ago
  Yes, there exist workarounds - but the point is that you should not have to "trick" your OS into not shooting you in the foot.
  - artifact_44 6y ago
    This is antivax logic.
    - ylyn 6y ago
      What in the world? No it is not. We have to trick our immune systems because we didn't design them. An OS is, obviously, designed by humans. So we shouldn't have to trick it.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    Not entirely sure, if feel for most people the best setting is to do the autoupdates. To be honest perhaps even myself sometimes.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
selykg 6y ago
Holy hell, the fact this is even a thing boggles my mind. I get that MS want's vital (to them) updates. But oof... your use case is exactly the one that will cause a shit load of pain.
ssheth 6y ago
There's a free tool called Windows Update MiniTool that works very well for disabling auto-updates and then allowing you to update manually every so often. That is what we install on our CNC machinery that have a Windows 10 backend. https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_minitool.html https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_mini...
- AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
  > free tool I'd rather describe this as a mail-in-rebate for the costs of running Windows 10. We sort of implicitly know there is this need to make the Windows lifestyle more sane, and can rely on tools like these existing. But the time it takes to research this, track down the best binary for the job (examining the source code is not always easy), makes me conclude that there's a real hidden cost to being a Windows user.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    It's not so hidden. It honestly astounds me that users are willing to put up with this bullshit. The most impressive thing about Microsoft as a company is the way it single-handedly lowered user expectations to the point where ads, security issues, and critical time-wasting failures are somehow considered an acceptable price of entry, and not evidence of an unacceptably shoddy, incompetent, and user-hostile product culture.
    - craftinator 6y ago
      Well, I came here to comment, but you already succinctly summed up my thoughts. Thanks for that!
    - phone8675309 6y ago
      People who run Windows aren’t the users - they’re the product, either with Microsoft selling their eyes with advertisements, harvesting their usage data through telemetry for a profit, using their numbers to push paid development software, or using their ubiquity to be the basis for computer literacy materials for public schools paid for by taxpayer.
ArnoVW 6y ago
I agree, this was sort of a annoying. Though when you reason about it in a systems way, not having a default of "reboot" would be problematic from a security PoV. Of course, you're not the only one with this issue. There used to be an option in "gpedit" to disable this, but I can't find it anymore. I suspect that this is because there is now an option in the "advanced options" of the "Windows update" menu, called "restart this device as soon as possible".
- reaperducer 6y ago
  when you reason about it in a systems way, not having a default of "reboot" would be problematic from a security PoV. It's very SV-bubble to assume that Microsoft's security needs are more important than him getting his work done. As he stated, he missed a critical deadline. What if the client cancelled the contract because of that, causing him to go out of business? How does trying to sympathize with Microsoft feed his family? No, the tech bubble is not more important than things that happen in the real world. Windows has security problems? Sure, all operating systems do. But Microsoft shouldn't shift its problems onto the users. That's just bad business, and bad ethics.
  - Conlectus 6y ago
    It's a bit more complicated than that I think. A common function of malware is to create "zombie" computers that are controllable en-mass to, say, DDoS a website. This makes the prevalence of malware-ridden Windows machines a _common_ concern, rather than specific to Microsoft.
    - ArnoVW 6y ago
      Exactly this is what I was getting at. 98% of Windows users don't care if their machine reboots, provided they don't lose work. This is precisely the 98% percent that are likely to get infected, and will cause havoc for all of us (not just themselves). Spam, DDoS, etc. Similar to how getting a vacination is not only good for you, but also for the rest of society. Mind you, I'm saying this from a perspective of someone who uses his machine to perform nightly jobs (learning models, ontology alignment, etc) So it's not like I haven't shared your pain =)
beezle 6y ago
Windows update does give warning and allows you to re-schedule updates to a different day and time. You can also push back on when you start getting certain kinds of updates. It may not be a perfect situation but I don't find it to be quite as dreadful as many make it out to be. FreeBSD is my other OS and I'll be honest, I dread doing those updates much more.
- asciimov 6y ago
  If you're like me, you've been conditioned to click the ok button on windows to get dialog boxes to go away. Never really reading what/when something is going to happen. Windows 10 hasn't always warned you about an update. Once I lost a half days work while visiting family. I had been doing some genealogy work, when some small kids come over, so I put my laptop asleep (shut the lid) and went about my day, not thinking to save. The next day, opened my laptop and was greeted with the "Hi! We are setting things up for you" screen. Was very upset to have to redo the previous days work.
- Delk 6y ago
  I think (although I'm not 100% sure) that if you don't react to the prompt at all, it automatically reboots after a while, at least on some updates. You may not always be at the computer if you're waiting for some kind of a long-term process to finish.
heavyset_go 6y ago
There's also the the Ameliorated Windows tools that strips a lot of nonsense out of the default Windows install. [1] https://ameliorated.info/ https://ameliorated.info/
cmroanirgo 6y ago
There also the option (I think it's Wifi only) where you can mark the connection as "metered connection" and it turns off a whole bunch of automated nonsense. Same as you, I periodically turn off the metered connection toggle and then run updates. It saves me a heap of angst.
fl0wenol 6y ago
Next time, order "KW4-00190" from any Microsoft reseller who will sell you it. You might need to add 4 addt. dummy licenses to your cart (Identity Manager is popular). This gets you access to the volume licensing portal so you can get MAK activation for LTSC editions of Windows 10. No store, no advertisements, no telemetry, Edge optional, all Enterprise features enabled, security updates only (defer fully configurable), out of the box. I use it at home and with my family members.
wing-_-nuts 6y ago
Dumb question, but why not just tell windows you're on a metered connection? It won't auto update then right?

vvwvvwvvw 6y ago

why is your cnc machine internet connected?

kmonsen 6y ago

Just say your network connection is metered, and that windows should not auto-install updates from metered connections.

pavel_lishin 6y ago
Yes, there exist workarounds - but the point is that you should not have to "trick" your OS into not shooting you in the foot.
- artifact_44 6y ago
  This is antivax logic.
  - ylyn 6y ago
    What in the world? No it is not. We have to trick our immune systems because we didn't design them. An OS is, obviously, designed by humans. So we shouldn't have to trick it.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  Not entirely sure, if feel for most people the best setting is to do the autoupdates. To be honest perhaps even myself sometimes.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

selykg 6y ago

Holy hell, the fact this is even a thing boggles my mind. I get that MS want's vital (to them) updates. But oof... your use case is exactly the one that will cause a shit load of pain.

ssheth 6y ago

There's a free tool called Windows Update MiniTool that works very well for disabling auto-updates and then allowing you to update manually every so often. That is what we install on our CNC machinery that have a Windows 10 backend. https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_minitool.html https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_mini...

AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
> free tool I'd rather describe this as a mail-in-rebate for the costs of running Windows 10. We sort of implicitly know there is this need to make the Windows lifestyle more sane, and can rely on tools like these existing. But the time it takes to research this, track down the best binary for the job (examining the source code is not always easy), makes me conclude that there's a real hidden cost to being a Windows user.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  It's not so hidden. It honestly astounds me that users are willing to put up with this bullshit. The most impressive thing about Microsoft as a company is the way it single-handedly lowered user expectations to the point where ads, security issues, and critical time-wasting failures are somehow considered an acceptable price of entry, and not evidence of an unacceptably shoddy, incompetent, and user-hostile product culture.
  - craftinator 6y ago
    Well, I came here to comment, but you already succinctly summed up my thoughts. Thanks for that!
  - phone8675309 6y ago
    People who run Windows aren’t the users - they’re the product, either with Microsoft selling their eyes with advertisements, harvesting their usage data through telemetry for a profit, using their numbers to push paid development software, or using their ubiquity to be the basis for computer literacy materials for public schools paid for by taxpayer.

ArnoVW 6y ago

I agree, this was sort of a annoying. Though when you reason about it in a systems way, not having a default of "reboot" would be problematic from a security PoV. Of course, you're not the only one with this issue. There used to be an option in "gpedit" to disable this, but I can't find it anymore. I suspect that this is because there is now an option in the "advanced options" of the "Windows update" menu, called "restart this device as soon as possible".

reaperducer 6y ago
when you reason about it in a systems way, not having a default of "reboot" would be problematic from a security PoV. It's very SV-bubble to assume that Microsoft's security needs are more important than him getting his work done. As he stated, he missed a critical deadline. What if the client cancelled the contract because of that, causing him to go out of business? How does trying to sympathize with Microsoft feed his family? No, the tech bubble is not more important than things that happen in the real world. Windows has security problems? Sure, all operating systems do. But Microsoft shouldn't shift its problems onto the users. That's just bad business, and bad ethics.
- Conlectus 6y ago
  It's a bit more complicated than that I think. A common function of malware is to create "zombie" computers that are controllable en-mass to, say, DDoS a website. This makes the prevalence of malware-ridden Windows machines a _common_ concern, rather than specific to Microsoft.
  - ArnoVW 6y ago
    Exactly this is what I was getting at. 98% of Windows users don't care if their machine reboots, provided they don't lose work. This is precisely the 98% percent that are likely to get infected, and will cause havoc for all of us (not just themselves). Spam, DDoS, etc. Similar to how getting a vacination is not only good for you, but also for the rest of society. Mind you, I'm saying this from a perspective of someone who uses his machine to perform nightly jobs (learning models, ontology alignment, etc) So it's not like I haven't shared your pain =)

beezle 6y ago

Windows update does give warning and allows you to re-schedule updates to a different day and time. You can also push back on when you start getting certain kinds of updates. It may not be a perfect situation but I don't find it to be quite as dreadful as many make it out to be. FreeBSD is my other OS and I'll be honest, I dread doing those updates much more.

asciimov 6y ago
If you're like me, you've been conditioned to click the ok button on windows to get dialog boxes to go away. Never really reading what/when something is going to happen. Windows 10 hasn't always warned you about an update. Once I lost a half days work while visiting family. I had been doing some genealogy work, when some small kids come over, so I put my laptop asleep (shut the lid) and went about my day, not thinking to save. The next day, opened my laptop and was greeted with the "Hi! We are setting things up for you" screen. Was very upset to have to redo the previous days work.
Delk 6y ago
I think (although I'm not 100% sure) that if you don't react to the prompt at all, it automatically reboots after a while, at least on some updates. You may not always be at the computer if you're waiting for some kind of a long-term process to finish.

heavyset_go 6y ago

There's also the the Ameliorated Windows tools that strips a lot of nonsense out of the default Windows install. [1] https://ameliorated.info/ https://ameliorated.info/

cmroanirgo 6y ago

There also the option (I think it's Wifi only) where you can mark the connection as "metered connection" and it turns off a whole bunch of automated nonsense. Same as you, I periodically turn off the metered connection toggle and then run updates. It saves me a heap of angst.

fl0wenol 6y ago

Next time, order "KW4-00190" from any Microsoft reseller who will sell you it. You might need to add 4 addt. dummy licenses to your cart (Identity Manager is popular). This gets you access to the volume licensing portal so you can get MAK activation for LTSC editions of Windows 10. No store, no advertisements, no telemetry, Edge optional, all Enterprise features enabled, security updates only (defer fully configurable), out of the box. I use it at home and with my family members.

wing-_-nuts 6y ago

Dumb question, but why not just tell windows you're on a metered connection? It won't auto update then right?