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My father was a farmer in Punjab. I have family at these protests right now. I can tell you that the anger is very real. Their livelihoods are being stripped aw

My father was a farmer in Punjab. I have family at these protests right now. I can tell you that the anger is very real. Their livelihoods are being stripped away from them just so Modi’s friends can make a quick buck. I like free markets, but it should not have to come at the expense of those at the bottom of the chain.

logicuce 6y ago
Anger can be real, but don't know if it is informed and rational. All I hear is that it is bad, but not able to find information how. Most of the protestors don't even know the details of what is being changed. And, frankly, at this stage if you think somebody like Modi or Rahul Gandhi or Kejriwal is about helping their friends make quick buck, the story doesn't add up. In their position they would think and act for legacy and it becomes much more a capability issue instead of intent.
- puranjay 6y ago
  Objectively, it is replacing a bad system. But the proponents of the bill place too much faith in the market. India has never had truly free markets. There is a very legitimate concern that a few big corporations will monopolize the market and leave farmers with no real choice. The concerns might have been muted if successive governments hadn't shown a willingness to bend and break (or heck, even set new rules) for a couple of major industrialists. As things stand, it is hard to trust the government.
  - logicuce 6y ago
    Policy change will continue to happen. And they happen because someone is rooting for them. You can't penalize a Industrialist for being an Industrialist. They are wealth generators and are doing that for a large number of people and not themselves alone (you can argue by how much). BTW, Farmers have enjoyed their share of handouts which are more or less treated as entitlement now a days: 1. Tax free income 2. Subsidies, lona waivers, electricity bill waivers 3. Minimum Support Price for the longest time
nervous_ring 6y ago
Farmers have access to 24x7 free water and power supply (something I in the city don't get). They get access to free seeds, pesticides and unending loan waivers year after year. In exchange we get the worst air pollution in the world and these protests that harm the general populace more. So I ask you, what more do farmers want? Is asking for something in return for billions of dollars in tax too much?
- gkcgautam 6y ago
  Do you have any stats to back your statement that farmers get 24x7 free water and power supply? Majority of my family from Punjab is into farming and we've always struggled with lack of water and power. There is subsidized power supply on paper but in reality it's supplied way less than what's needed. Same is the case with water. People have to use gensets and thus spend more money than the standard power rate. We would rather pay the market rate for these and get better supply than the subsidized but poor service.
  - nervous_ring 6y ago
    Firsthand experience and many folks I know have seen it. Some of them actually turned to farming seeing the benefits and are actually generating humongous amounts of profits. Like my immediate neighbor is doing it right now. I'm not from Punjab, it might be different there.
- puranjay 6y ago
  If seeds and pesticide weren't free, farmers would have to pass on these costs to the consumer. In a country where the poorest state has a per capita income of less than $51/month [0], even a 20% hike in food prices will hurt the weakest a great deal. Coincidentally, the weakest often tend to be farmers themselves. Average land holding size for farmers is abysmally small - less than 3 acres - and shrinking every year [1]. The average Walmart parking lot is bigger than most farms in India. Expecting such subsistence farmers for being "grateful" for their measly subsidies is a bit rich. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bihar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bihar [1]: https://www.livemint.com/Politics/SOG43o5ypqO13j0QflaawM/The-land-challenge-underlying-Indias-farm-crisis.html https://www.livemint.com/Politics/SOG43o5ypqO13j0QflaawM/The...
deleted 6y ago
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logicuce 6y ago

Anger can be real, but don't know if it is informed and rational. All I hear is that it is bad, but not able to find information how. Most of the protestors don't even know the details of what is being changed. And, frankly, at this stage if you think somebody like Modi or Rahul Gandhi or Kejriwal is about helping their friends make quick buck, the story doesn't add up. In their position they would think and act for legacy and it becomes much more a capability issue instead of intent.

puranjay 6y ago
Objectively, it is replacing a bad system. But the proponents of the bill place too much faith in the market. India has never had truly free markets. There is a very legitimate concern that a few big corporations will monopolize the market and leave farmers with no real choice. The concerns might have been muted if successive governments hadn't shown a willingness to bend and break (or heck, even set new rules) for a couple of major industrialists. As things stand, it is hard to trust the government.
- logicuce 6y ago
  Policy change will continue to happen. And they happen because someone is rooting for them. You can't penalize a Industrialist for being an Industrialist. They are wealth generators and are doing that for a large number of people and not themselves alone (you can argue by how much). BTW, Farmers have enjoyed their share of handouts which are more or less treated as entitlement now a days: 1. Tax free income 2. Subsidies, lona waivers, electricity bill waivers 3. Minimum Support Price for the longest time

nervous_ring 6y ago

Farmers have access to 24x7 free water and power supply (something I in the city don't get). They get access to free seeds, pesticides and unending loan waivers year after year. In exchange we get the worst air pollution in the world and these protests that harm the general populace more. So I ask you, what more do farmers want? Is asking for something in return for billions of dollars in tax too much?

gkcgautam 6y ago
Do you have any stats to back your statement that farmers get 24x7 free water and power supply? Majority of my family from Punjab is into farming and we've always struggled with lack of water and power. There is subsidized power supply on paper but in reality it's supplied way less than what's needed. Same is the case with water. People have to use gensets and thus spend more money than the standard power rate. We would rather pay the market rate for these and get better supply than the subsidized but poor service.
- nervous_ring 6y ago
  Firsthand experience and many folks I know have seen it. Some of them actually turned to farming seeing the benefits and are actually generating humongous amounts of profits. Like my immediate neighbor is doing it right now. I'm not from Punjab, it might be different there.
puranjay 6y ago
If seeds and pesticide weren't free, farmers would have to pass on these costs to the consumer. In a country where the poorest state has a per capita income of less than $51/month [0], even a 20% hike in food prices will hurt the weakest a great deal. Coincidentally, the weakest often tend to be farmers themselves. Average land holding size for farmers is abysmally small - less than 3 acres - and shrinking every year [1]. The average Walmart parking lot is bigger than most farms in India. Expecting such subsistence farmers for being "grateful" for their measly subsidies is a bit rich. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bihar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bihar [1]: https://www.livemint.com/Politics/SOG43o5ypqO13j0QflaawM/The-land-challenge-underlying-Indias-farm-crisis.html https://www.livemint.com/Politics/SOG43o5ypqO13j0QflaawM/The...

deleted 6y ago

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