5 ms·

> $199 — 3GB RAM; 32GB eMMC (includes a bundled USB-C dock) This could basically be a daily use PC + Phone for 199$? Quite impressive.

Ardon 6y ago
"Daily use" might be a biiit of a stretch with this hardware, but it'll be functional. I think Pinephone 2, whenever that happens, will be a much more practical convergence device. Pine64's plans to upgrade to the RK3566 SOC in their low-power devices look very promising.
- fsflover 6y ago
  If you are waiting for "Pinephone 2", take a look at Librem 5: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5
  - jcun4128 6y ago
    $800? The ram is 3GB so wondering what the huge jump in price is.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#17-why-does-the-librem-5-cost-so-much-compared-to-the-pinephone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... and https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: from a consumer point of view, the answer would be "because it is innovative" [0] and it has much faster RAM and GPU [1]. [0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#15-how-innovative-is-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... [1] https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p...
      - jcun4128 6y ago
        Yeah those are valid points about the better quality material/more capability/development/non-outsourced hardware/people. I guess that's tough though as you can get a nice Android/other phone for $800 but yeah. Tinfoil-hat engaged... the Shenzhen thing idk while it has physical switches have I personally routed those switches to check the devices are actually off. I've kind of given up on that kind of thinking anyway since I don't tape up my phone's webcams/mic/battery off/faraday cage/led container/etc haha. Anyway sorry tangent, I'm not really getting Linux phones with privacy as main intent just the idea of a "desktop experience" on a phone is great.
        fsflover 6y ago
        > Tinfoil-hat engaged... This is a valid concern. Purism publishes schematics and x-ray images, so anyone can search for hardware backdoors themselves. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#43-how-secure-is-the-librem-5-compared-to-an-android-phone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... In addition, there is "Made in USA" version of the phone for $2000.
        jcun4128 6y ago
        It is a dumb argument on my part since while you can read through source code say assuming it's publicly accessible/not compiled... am __I__ personally going to scan through code line by line to know what's in there... > Of course nobody alone can review the millions of lines of code that are required to make a modern operating system and its software, but having a large community of people who can look at the code and fix problems when they find them provides far more transparency than a security model based on trusting giant tech companies. > "Made in USA" version of the phone for $2000 Yeah that's tough too man... it is nice regarding supporting domestic development but man. Anyway as a whole I hope it becomes more ubiquitous although I imagine most people just want their phone to work not something they have to program/assemble/etc(I mean it does work OOB) but still not mainstream like Android/iOS. The app market share thing too as I remembered that may have been a big contributor to why the Windows phones died which I loved the design at the time I had a Lumia 920. But yeah thanks for the info/providing both sides.
    - blihp 6y ago
      Profit margin expectations.
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- linmob 6y ago
  I made a couple videos on convergence already (https://linmob.net https://linmob.net, my video channels are linked). In a recent live stream (I’ll definitely publish that segment) I used Gnome 3 on the docked PinePhone and it was surprisingly good.
blihp 6y ago
Unless you're used to running on a low-end Chromebook as a daily driver, no.
- squarefoot 6y ago
  I'd like to be optimistic wrt future software performance on this model as well. Linux isn't Android where user apps are written to run under a virtual machine and development has to deal with the Java monoculture (Android still doesn't have low latency audio for this exact reason). However, some Python apps that on a powerful desktop run at high speed might be taxed by the Pinephone comparatively slow hardware, so native compiled code would be the solution to give a significant speed bump to most Pinephone userland applications.
  - blihp 6y ago
    C++ apps tax the Pinephone hardware. It's just not very fast vs user expectations today. More generally you can't just recompile desktop Linux apps on mobile and expect much in terms of responsiveness/battery life. While I'm with you re: not wanting to be stuck in a proprietary ecosystem, it does have one advantage: you must specifically target the platform in order to do much useful on it which typically includes platform-specific optimizations so it performs well. It's an interesting conundrum: right now I can probably get 90% of Linux GUI software running on my Pinephone. The problem is, it's so slow and painful to use that I don't want to. I'd much rather see the critical 5% of the software (browsers etc) optimized for mobile. I think we'll get there in time, but it's still early days.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      I started coding in C++ back in 1992, with Turbo C++ 1.0 for MS-DOS, followed by Turbo C++ for Windows 3.1, with the Object Windows Library. A 386SX running on 20 MHz with turbo mode on, with 2 MB RAM. Something has gone quite wrong when the Pinephone hardware cannot keep up with C++ apps.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    > Android still doesn't have low latency audio for this exact reason It surely does, https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/aaudio/aaudio https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/aaudio/aaudio Also Java and Kotlin on Android are native compiled code since Android 5. GNOME shows me where the Linux "performance" is heading.

Ardon 6y ago

"Daily use" might be a biiit of a stretch with this hardware, but it'll be functional. I think Pinephone 2, whenever that happens, will be a much more practical convergence device. Pine64's plans to upgrade to the RK3566 SOC in their low-power devices look very promising.

fsflover 6y ago
If you are waiting for "Pinephone 2", take a look at Librem 5: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5
- jcun4128 6y ago
  $800? The ram is 3GB so wondering what the huge jump in price is.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#17-why-does-the-librem-5-cost-so-much-compared-to-the-pinephone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... and https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: from a consumer point of view, the answer would be "because it is innovative" [0] and it has much faster RAM and GPU [1]. [0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#15-how-innovative-is-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... [1] https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p...
    - jcun4128 6y ago
      Yeah those are valid points about the better quality material/more capability/development/non-outsourced hardware/people. I guess that's tough though as you can get a nice Android/other phone for $800 but yeah. Tinfoil-hat engaged... the Shenzhen thing idk while it has physical switches have I personally routed those switches to check the devices are actually off. I've kind of given up on that kind of thinking anyway since I don't tape up my phone's webcams/mic/battery off/faraday cage/led container/etc haha. Anyway sorry tangent, I'm not really getting Linux phones with privacy as main intent just the idea of a "desktop experience" on a phone is great.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        > Tinfoil-hat engaged... This is a valid concern. Purism publishes schematics and x-ray images, so anyone can search for hardware backdoors themselves. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#43-how-secure-is-the-librem-5-compared-to-an-android-phone https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... In addition, there is "Made in USA" version of the phone for $2000.
        jcun4128 6y ago
        It is a dumb argument on my part since while you can read through source code say assuming it's publicly accessible/not compiled... am __I__ personally going to scan through code line by line to know what's in there... > Of course nobody alone can review the millions of lines of code that are required to make a modern operating system and its software, but having a large community of people who can look at the code and fix problems when they find them provides far more transparency than a security model based on trusting giant tech companies. > "Made in USA" version of the phone for $2000 Yeah that's tough too man... it is nice regarding supporting domestic development but man. Anyway as a whole I hope it becomes more ubiquitous although I imagine most people just want their phone to work not something they have to program/assemble/etc(I mean it does work OOB) but still not mainstream like Android/iOS. The app market share thing too as I remembered that may have been a big contributor to why the Windows phones died which I loved the design at the time I had a Lumia 920. But yeah thanks for the info/providing both sides.
  - blihp 6y ago
    Profit margin expectations.
- deleted 6y ago
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- deleted 6y ago
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linmob 6y ago
I made a couple videos on convergence already (https://linmob.net https://linmob.net, my video channels are linked). In a recent live stream (I’ll definitely publish that segment) I used Gnome 3 on the docked PinePhone and it was surprisingly good.

blihp 6y ago

Unless you're used to running on a low-end Chromebook as a daily driver, no.

squarefoot 6y ago
I'd like to be optimistic wrt future software performance on this model as well. Linux isn't Android where user apps are written to run under a virtual machine and development has to deal with the Java monoculture (Android still doesn't have low latency audio for this exact reason). However, some Python apps that on a powerful desktop run at high speed might be taxed by the Pinephone comparatively slow hardware, so native compiled code would be the solution to give a significant speed bump to most Pinephone userland applications.
- blihp 6y ago
  C++ apps tax the Pinephone hardware. It's just not very fast vs user expectations today. More generally you can't just recompile desktop Linux apps on mobile and expect much in terms of responsiveness/battery life. While I'm with you re: not wanting to be stuck in a proprietary ecosystem, it does have one advantage: you must specifically target the platform in order to do much useful on it which typically includes platform-specific optimizations so it performs well. It's an interesting conundrum: right now I can probably get 90% of Linux GUI software running on my Pinephone. The problem is, it's so slow and painful to use that I don't want to. I'd much rather see the critical 5% of the software (browsers etc) optimized for mobile. I think we'll get there in time, but it's still early days.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    I started coding in C++ back in 1992, with Turbo C++ 1.0 for MS-DOS, followed by Turbo C++ for Windows 3.1, with the Object Windows Library. A 386SX running on 20 MHz with turbo mode on, with 2 MB RAM. Something has gone quite wrong when the Pinephone hardware cannot keep up with C++ apps.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  > Android still doesn't have low latency audio for this exact reason It surely does, https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/aaudio/aaudio https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/aaudio/aaudio Also Java and Kotlin on Android are native compiled code since Android 5. GNOME shows me where the Linux "performance" is heading.