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I think it's high time for Puerto Rico to become a US state. Puerto Rico has twice the population of the two Dakotas combined and the only way they'll receive

I think it's high time for Puerto Rico to become a US state. Puerto Rico has twice the population of the two Dakotas combined and the only way they'll receive more-equitable treatment is if they become a state. I think the will is there locally but there has been resistance from established political factions in the US who fear a place that might tip the balance of power one way or the other.

claydavisss 6y ago
The only people really invested in this are the citizens of PR, mostly because it will mean a fiscal lifeline. For a citizen of the present USA, there is no upside to incorporating PR as a state.
skuhn 6y ago
I agree with you, and I'll go a step further. The US should not have any colonial territories or federal districts where US citizens live who have second-class rights compared to citizens of the 50 states. That means DC, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, and American Samoa (collectively 3.8 million US citizens) should all be made states. There are undoubtedly lots of issues and hiccups with implementing that, but fundamentally I think that having classes of citizens with abridged rights is wrong.
- Frondo 6y ago
  I'll go even further: find a way to grant them all the rights of citizenship (representation for their taxation) and let them decide for themselves on statehood. If there's any downside (I honestly don't know, maybe there is?), those people should be given the choice to determine their course of action for themselves. But I agree completely, having people who pay taxes and can't access all the machinery of government they fund is criminal. (This also includes disenfranchised felons, but especially disenfranchised ex-felons.)
  - skuhn 6y ago
    I think we're maxed out on this thread for who to enfranchise, which is good! I believe one of the big downsides for citizens of Puerto Rico that has caused issues with the push for statehood is that they don't currently pay federal income tax. So it isn't exactly a taxation-without-representation situation, but they are obviously at the mercy of the US in many ways and don't have access to all of the levers of power that are available to others. Witness the suffering at our delay in suspending the Jones Act (requiring two days of debate) during the Hurricane Maria relief campaign. I doubt that Puerto Rico's lot would fundamentally change if they were a separate country though, they would still be largely at the mercy of their main trading partner and dominant regional power (the US). I was also thinking of felons in my earlier comment, but it didn't quite fit my narrative. I don't find the rationale that they would just vote for there to be no laws particularly compelling.
tt433 6y ago
They recently voted for statehood in a plebescite. I believe the official GOP platform does actually support statehood, but I'm of the view that GOP politicians and voters don't actually know what their platform is beyond revanchism
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Obviously, they will official support it for cosmetic purposes of promoting “democracy”. In practice, however, they know it will cause them to lose power, so they won’t vote for it. Same reason Washington DC residents don’t have representation in the Senate. Or why the popular vote does not matter for the president.
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    Washington DC isn't a state because it was literally created to not be a state. If they want to give DC residents voting rights they should make it impossible to be a DC resident and instead anyone who lives within DC should vote as part of the state the land was taken from for federal elections. That solves everyone's problems (well aside from the democrats who are trying to get another 2 seats in the senate). Local issues should still be decided at the federal level because that's the whole reason it exists, so a state can't take the seat of fed gov hostage as happened in 1783 in philly. If you don't want DC to be controlled by the fed then it should be swallowed by maryland or virginia. Making a single city a state unto itself doesn't make any sense unless you're specifically trying to make political hay.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - godtoldmetodoit 6y ago
      DC has nearly the same amount of people as North Dakota. Having two Dakotas doesn't make any sense from a political representation point of view either, but here we are.
      - 6y ago
readarticle 6y ago
You don’t have to think anything, there are millions of boricuas across the US who will happily fill you in on how divisive statehood is and how little mainland politics factor into it.
- wavefunction 6y ago
  Thanks but they had to establish their boricuas outside of PR to have any input which makes me discount their input against the idea.
vxNsr 6y ago
PR residents are actively against the idea mainly because they don't pay fed taxes. only reason democrats are for the idea is because they believe it'll give them another two reliable seats in the senate.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  PR residents voted in favor of statehood in a referendum[0] in the most recent election cycle. 52.34% voted in favor, based on a turnout of 52%. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_refer...
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    well that's new.... I was there back in 2017 and everyone I spoke to was very against it, and I remember when I looked up the stats they also showed the majority weren't for it. Still looks like it's a close issue, statehood is a big deal and affects everyone dramatically, kinda feel like it should have overwhelming support, not 51% of 52% of ppl... that's actually only 26% of eligible voters voting for it.
    - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
      Would you believe, almost exactly the same proportion of the U.S. electorate that voted for Donald Trump in 2016?
      - Miraste 6y ago
        What? He got 46%.
      - vxNsr 6y ago
        What’s the relevance of that stat?
- fweespeech 6y ago
  https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16385658/puerto-rico-taxes-hurricane#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%20is%20a%20US,estate%20taxes%20and%20so%20on https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16385658/p.... > Puerto Rico is a US territory and not a state, so its residents don’t pay federal income tax unless they work for the US government. Even so, workers there pay the majority of federal taxes that Americans on the mainland pay — payroll taxes, social security taxes, business taxes, gift taxes, estate taxes and so on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Puerto_Rico_locations_by_per_capita_income#:~:text=In%202017%2C%20Puerto%20Rico%20had,territory%20in%20the%20United%20States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Puerto_Rico_locations_.... > In 2017, Puerto Rico had a median household income of $19,775 — the lowest of any state or territory in the United States. ---- > PR residents are actively against the idea mainly because they don't pay fed taxes. They do. They don't pay income tax which with their low incomes is marginal anyway.
amercado 6y ago
They're better off becoming independent. There's nothing for them in the United States. The statehood cry is only coming from cynical democrats and corrupt business politicians in PR whose only interest is in trade with the US for their own benefit because they have financial connections to the US, not ordinary Puerto Ricans. The only reason statehood gets so high in these polls is that the commonwealth, free association and independence voters have been boycotting the plebiscites forever.

claydavisss 6y ago

The only people really invested in this are the citizens of PR, mostly because it will mean a fiscal lifeline. For a citizen of the present USA, there is no upside to incorporating PR as a state.

skuhn 6y ago

I agree with you, and I'll go a step further. The US should not have any colonial territories or federal districts where US citizens live who have second-class rights compared to citizens of the 50 states. That means DC, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, and American Samoa (collectively 3.8 million US citizens) should all be made states. There are undoubtedly lots of issues and hiccups with implementing that, but fundamentally I think that having classes of citizens with abridged rights is wrong.

Frondo 6y ago
I'll go even further: find a way to grant them all the rights of citizenship (representation for their taxation) and let them decide for themselves on statehood. If there's any downside (I honestly don't know, maybe there is?), those people should be given the choice to determine their course of action for themselves. But I agree completely, having people who pay taxes and can't access all the machinery of government they fund is criminal. (This also includes disenfranchised felons, but especially disenfranchised ex-felons.)
- skuhn 6y ago
  I think we're maxed out on this thread for who to enfranchise, which is good! I believe one of the big downsides for citizens of Puerto Rico that has caused issues with the push for statehood is that they don't currently pay federal income tax. So it isn't exactly a taxation-without-representation situation, but they are obviously at the mercy of the US in many ways and don't have access to all of the levers of power that are available to others. Witness the suffering at our delay in suspending the Jones Act (requiring two days of debate) during the Hurricane Maria relief campaign. I doubt that Puerto Rico's lot would fundamentally change if they were a separate country though, they would still be largely at the mercy of their main trading partner and dominant regional power (the US). I was also thinking of felons in my earlier comment, but it didn't quite fit my narrative. I don't find the rationale that they would just vote for there to be no laws particularly compelling.

tt433 6y ago

They recently voted for statehood in a plebescite. I believe the official GOP platform does actually support statehood, but I'm of the view that GOP politicians and voters don't actually know what their platform is beyond revanchism

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Obviously, they will official support it for cosmetic purposes of promoting “democracy”. In practice, however, they know it will cause them to lose power, so they won’t vote for it. Same reason Washington DC residents don’t have representation in the Senate. Or why the popular vote does not matter for the president.
- vxNsr 6y ago
  Washington DC isn't a state because it was literally created to not be a state. If they want to give DC residents voting rights they should make it impossible to be a DC resident and instead anyone who lives within DC should vote as part of the state the land was taken from for federal elections. That solves everyone's problems (well aside from the democrats who are trying to get another 2 seats in the senate). Local issues should still be decided at the federal level because that's the whole reason it exists, so a state can't take the seat of fed gov hostage as happened in 1783 in philly. If you don't want DC to be controlled by the fed then it should be swallowed by maryland or virginia. Making a single city a state unto itself doesn't make any sense unless you're specifically trying to make political hay.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - godtoldmetodoit 6y ago
    DC has nearly the same amount of people as North Dakota. Having two Dakotas doesn't make any sense from a political representation point of view either, but here we are.
    - 6y ago

readarticle 6y ago

You don’t have to think anything, there are millions of boricuas across the US who will happily fill you in on how divisive statehood is and how little mainland politics factor into it.

wavefunction 6y ago
Thanks but they had to establish their boricuas outside of PR to have any input which makes me discount their input against the idea.

vxNsr 6y ago

PR residents are actively against the idea mainly because they don't pay fed taxes. only reason democrats are for the idea is because they believe it'll give them another two reliable seats in the senate.

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
PR residents voted in favor of statehood in a referendum[0] in the most recent election cycle. 52.34% voted in favor, based on a turnout of 52%. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_refer...
- vxNsr 6y ago
  well that's new.... I was there back in 2017 and everyone I spoke to was very against it, and I remember when I looked up the stats they also showed the majority weren't for it. Still looks like it's a close issue, statehood is a big deal and affects everyone dramatically, kinda feel like it should have overwhelming support, not 51% of 52% of ppl... that's actually only 26% of eligible voters voting for it.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    Would you believe, almost exactly the same proportion of the U.S. electorate that voted for Donald Trump in 2016?
    - Miraste 6y ago
      What? He got 46%.
    - vxNsr 6y ago
      What’s the relevance of that stat?
fweespeech 6y ago
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16385658/puerto-rico-taxes-hurricane#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%20is%20a%20US,estate%20taxes%20and%20so%20on https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16385658/p.... > Puerto Rico is a US territory and not a state, so its residents don’t pay federal income tax unless they work for the US government. Even so, workers there pay the majority of federal taxes that Americans on the mainland pay — payroll taxes, social security taxes, business taxes, gift taxes, estate taxes and so on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Puerto_Rico_locations_by_per_capita_income#:~:text=In%202017%2C%20Puerto%20Rico%20had,territory%20in%20the%20United%20States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Puerto_Rico_locations_.... > In 2017, Puerto Rico had a median household income of $19,775 — the lowest of any state or territory in the United States. ---- > PR residents are actively against the idea mainly because they don't pay fed taxes. They do. They don't pay income tax which with their low incomes is marginal anyway.

amercado 6y ago

They're better off becoming independent. There's nothing for them in the United States. The statehood cry is only coming from cynical democrats and corrupt business politicians in PR whose only interest is in trade with the US for their own benefit because they have financial connections to the US, not ordinary Puerto Ricans. The only reason statehood gets so high in these polls is that the commonwealth, free association and independence voters have been boycotting the plebiscites forever.