6 ms·

We Want A Dead Simple Web Tablet. Help Us Build It.

86 points by demandred 18y ago

kimboslice 18y ago
I want in!
bprater 18y ago
Didn't the XO project give us some indication on how difficult it is to create this type of thing? And unless Arrington is ready commit to this project full-time, it is going nowhere fast. I suspect that he is using his clout to simply trying to get into the inbox of vendors. Don't get me wrong, I'd love one. I suspect Apple is working on something like this. We have the technology of Air and the technology of iPhone. Their love child could fill this gap. I don't know going OS-less either. I think "Grandma" mode would be fine, otherwise, I'd rather have more control over the box.
- ojbyrne 18y ago
  If Apple does this, it's unlikely to be cheap.
- dhbradshaw 18y ago
  OS-less might be worth it if it allowed the thing to turn on and off in less than one second.
  - bprater 18y ago
    My Mac does wake up in about a second right now. However, I see your point and totally agree.
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  there are people within TC and within the companies we are working with who are working on this fulltime
noonespecial 18y ago
As of this time, the touch screen will make the $200 price tag impossible. The $300-$400 is very possible however. If they do build it and keep it open (which is by no means a given when it comes to stuff like this), it could be a wonderful success.
brm 18y ago
Dead simple is near impossible to create with this many chef's stirring the pot already
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  Yep. Three words: "Openmoko Train Wreck": http://www.vimeo.com/1366042?pg=embed&sec=1366042 http://www.vimeo.com/1366042?pg=embed&sec=1366042 After I saw this video, I really appreciated the time and money the Apple engineers must have spent in designing the iPhone keyboard. I've got a new policy: I refuse to get excited about open-source vaporware. Talk is cheap. Design is expensive, and having one thousand people work for one hour each is no substitute for having one person work a thousand hours.
  - d0mine 18y ago
    iPhone 3G has its problems too http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=252923 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=252923
  - Tichy 18y ago
    Any information on who actually worked on OpenMoko? Just because it is OpenSource doesn't mean that there are zillions of volunteers working on it. It might still just have been one company that screwed up it's product.
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  we will manage that. the dev community will be live tonight and it has already been split up into sub-projects with leads on each one.
gm 18y ago
Well I'll be damned... Is this a case of Arrington actually trying to make something happen instead of watching things happen? I for one, am surprised. I am very happily eating crow. Not that anyone should care, but I have always disliked Arrington and the other bunch of observers because they think they're important when all they do is watch things happen and then write about it. I hope this succeeds, and I hope they carry it through to completion. I will buy one of these for sure when it comes out.
- webwright 18y ago
  Watching things happen and writing about it IS important. There's no shame in admiring startups but not spinning one up. Of course, he HAS spun one up. He's got a big blog network in lots of countries, built up Crunchbase with a team of great devs and a reportedly cool API, etc. TechCrunch has tons of custom software. And it's profitable.
  - gm 18y ago
    Admiring's fine, it's criticizing that I have a problem with. It takes all of half a second to say "Twitter stability sucks," but it takes a LOT more work to actually make a Twitter that is stable. Anyone can say what's wrong with the world.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      Criticizing, too, is important. Without it, Twitter's stability would never improve. Hell, even with it, it seems unlikely to happen.
      - gm 18y ago
        Who cares? Do you think people writing about Twitter sucking actually makes them improve things? If this were so, then automated phone response systems would be history. So would off-shore call centers, and so on. Bad Twitter stability will get fixed if and when it translates into lost revenue and/or market share. From what I have been reading, it already is (apparently to FriendFeed if I remember correctly. I am not at all into the Twitter thing, so please correct me if I'm wrong). These are businesses. Profits, market share, revenues, that kind of thing matters. Everything else matters only when it translates into something that matters.
ph0rque 18y ago
Pixel Qi should allow the touch screen component to be very inexpensive...
imp 18y ago
He really is just describing a Nokia N810 tablet. When a reader suggested that, Arrington replied: "yes, although we want to build it a lot cheaper and have a much bigger screen." So, he expects to replicate the N810, but with a bigger screen and better price? How is he going to beat Nokia and still make a profit?
- wmf 18y ago
  What does TechCrunch have to do with profit? If bubble companies can build software, why not hardware?
  - greyman 18y ago
    They are profitable, AFAIK, so that's what TC have to do with profit.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  I don't think he cares about the profit portion.
  - imp 18y ago
    Okay, cool. In that case I'll take two.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  nothing to do with profit - they will retail at cost. it will be cheaper than the Nokia because of what the device doesn't have in it (eg. bluetooth, GPS, being browser only etc.)
  - khangtoh 18y ago
    and the firefox default homepage is techcrunch.com and yes, you cannot change it according to the EULA.. now you see it.. ah...
river_styx 18y ago
Isn't he basically describing an iPod Touch with a bigger screen?
- yangyang42 18y ago
  ... but only wants to pay $200 for it.
  - deepster 18y ago
    ...and he only wants to pay you with a free tablet!
    - aardvarkious 18y ago
      I didn't see anywhere that the early prototypes would be free to developers: just that they would get first dibs.
  - babul 18y ago
    He will get his for free of course, as will a bunch of celebs and media tech "stars" etc. etc., but the rest of us will be the ones who have to pay for it.
    - ph0rque 18y ago
      As long as it's only $200, I don't mind...
- jodrellblank 18y ago
  No. Sites I want YC to fund include a new product review site. One that focuses on the details of a device's software rather than pure hardware spec. The iPhone/iPod touch is far from just a tablet with firefox (safari) on it. It's understandable, affordant, responsive, coherent, slick, sleek, predictable, wonderful. It has QWAN by the bucket load. It DWIM. And you don't get a feel for that in a review that talks about its 128Mb RAM and 400Mhz processor and IMAP email support. That makes it sound identical to my Windows Mobile HTC, yet between the two is a vast yawning cavern of difference. What he describes is, frankly, a crap idea. It's got a big touch screen, processor, memory, storage, OS, power supply, video card, mainboard, USB controller, WLAN, but No keyboard, and with extremely limited software. Yes, a general computer with extremely limited software. Exactly what drives the development of OpenMoko, pwnagetool, Linux, ipodlinux, DD-WRT and openWRT, linux for the PS2 and on and on. Has he seen the Asus EEE inspired Dell E? The other dozens of small, cheap, wireless-enabled, flash driven linux subnotebooks?
rw 18y ago
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2689707981_6c5fc0c808_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2689707981_6c5fc0c808_o.... I don't think it would be using Windows Firefox!
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  haha def not
martythemaniak 18y ago
My two main thoughts on this are: 1. It won't cost $200. The Nokia N810 has similar specs and had a price drop to $300, so I don't see how this will happen. It might be possible to source the parts for 200, but not build it, ship it and make a profit. 2. Why not use Ubuntu MID? I have not used it, but it was made for these kind of devices. Certainly much easier and cheaper than writing custom linux/ff code. Just add Firefox with a preset homepage to the startup and you're done :)
- biosoup 18y ago
  Do you think that they want to make profit? Didn't Arrington said that the whole device will be open source?
  - vaksel 18y ago
    Open source just means Arrington won't need to pay coders to write the software, and will get to enjoy discounts from people who have contacts to help build the hardware.
    - Herring 18y ago
      You say that like it's a bad thing.
      - vaksel 18y ago
        just clarifying, since it sounded like he thought open source = non-profit
  - cubrilovic 18y ago
    not a profit incentive. we just want cool hardware and want it to be open
- greyman 18y ago
  No, The Nokia N810 has NOT similar specs. If nothing else, it has keyboard.
biosoup 18y ago
I did a research about this subject and it could be done... even with price around 200$. They will face two big problems: 1) touch screen - what type they would use? how it "lights"? weight? 2) battery - capacity? POSITION of battery! and few other problems such power supply (integrated?). CPU, RAM, SSD are not problems, they are cheap and really easili intergrated, OS is not problem too (already seen such devices with Linux). And the last thing is design... lets face it. It's important how it will look and feel when carrying. And I'm not talking about catching the right size of it (in my research A4 is too big and A5 is too small). So lets see what will happen... I offered I will try to help them, what about you?
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
lurker 18y ago
is techcrunch spamming YNews? why would copies of the same story be at the top of the news list?
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  hey I just found this thread! (read the site every day though)
rms 18y ago
Wait for the new OLPC.
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  like saying wait for peace in the middle east (both UN initiatives)
  - rms 18y ago
    They are doing much better at iterating the OLPC than making peace in the Middle East...
rms 18y ago
A perfect tablet like this would go a long way toward solving #2 on the YC idea list. Also see Canonical's UMPC GUI.
rms 18y ago
This isn't going to happen for $200 until http://www.pixelqi.com http://www.pixelqi.com starts selling their second generation screen.
ivankirigin 18y ago
Can someone point out a successful open source hardware effort? I'm tracking bug labs, open moko, and some router efforts. None are mainstream. None come close to the appeal of Apple products. Hardware is really hard. Most people reading TechCrunch probably don't understand this.
- wmf 18y ago
  Don't forget Neuros, Chumby, and OGP; I wouldn't call any of them successful.
- utnick 18y ago
  There are quite a few open source guitar effects pedals floating around...commercially successful? probably no.
- Tichy 18y ago
  Doesn't mean that hardware has to remain hard forever. Maybe something could be done to make it simpler. Some things already have been done. For example, it is very simple to build your own PC out of readymade components.
  - corentin 18y ago
    By hard, we don't mean "difficult to understand and master"; one can learn electronics on his own in the same way he can learn programming. The tools and skills required are on par with software (well, the tools are usually better); it's just that hardware requires much more capital and time to build, and you have to deal with a lot of logistics and business issues. A small team with no capital can build a ready-to-ship software product. A small team with no capital can build a working hardware prototype, but the step from prototype to actual, ready-to-sell product requires lots of resources.
    - Tichy 18y ago
      And I think that can change, for example because of Rapid Prototyping, Build On Demand and so on.
tocomment 18y ago
I'm betting Apple has a patent on just about every part of this thing. I hope someone can tell me I'm wrong.
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  great point and something we have looked into. nothing like an Apple v Open Source patent war
sd 18y ago
Back at the 2001 Comdex, Bill Gates announced that by 2007, such devices would be the most popular form of PC in the U.S. Although his timing was off, I think Gates was definitely on to something. Yet as brm notes, it's probably going to take more than just the open source community. Open source seems great for advancing the bleeding-edge; but honestly, unless money is on the line, how many devs are going to cut out their cool feature that they spent hours developing, just because it's hard to use or might make the device more complicated? Perhaps, a team (but not necessarily a large team) of hackers devoted full-time to making a successful interface / kiosk for this might make it big. Perhaps, such a business might make a good fit for Y Combinator. ;-)
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  yes Gates was onto something. nobody has done it right though
- jkent 18y ago
  In Gates' 1996 'The Road Ahead' he was talking about the convergence of devices to what seemed like a mobile, touch screen web browser (within 5 years, a bit optimistic). He talks about the wallet pc, a sketch of which looks like an iphone in landscape mode. Why didn't Microsoft try this?
  - raganwald 18y ago
    I owned a TabletPC. I argue they did try it, and did a decent job of it. However, the big roadblock was the fact that they are at the mercy of their hardware vendors. Consider multi-touch. When Apple decided that multi-touch is the future, they simply started building it into their laptops. If Microsoft decides multi-touch is the future, they build an API and some of the vendors offer a few models with multi-touch and the market decides whether it wants to pay a premium for multi-touch or not. Meanwhile app vendors sit on the sidelines while everyone plays chicken and egg. This is why tablets went nowhere... the market refused to pay a premium for tablets, so the vendors only made a few, which kept prices high, which kept sales low, and so forth...
- g00dn3ss 18y ago
danw 18y ago
Sounds like an Asus Eee PC with a slightly different form factor or a Nokia Internet Tablet to me
mannylee1 18y ago
Tell me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the parts alone cost around $200. I am not saying that this is impossible, but reliable batteries alone have got to be pretty expensive.
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  the price point we are at in our spec already is at $150 so we have left $50 or more to add cooler shit
  - rms 18y ago
    Where are you getting the screen?
    - cubrilovic 18y ago
      our supply chain guys sourced it - we haven't set yet if we are going LCD or exact specific specs (we need to run power tests). the dual touch pad sitting behind it is coming out of a company that hasn't seen their tech integrated into a major product yet. im sorry we cant mention company names just yet - we are doing this through proxy (ie. using a supply chain company, design firm and manufacturer). I am hoping I can publish the full tech details at some point in the next 24h and we can go from there
      - noonespecial 18y ago
        It always seems like it works out this way. Secret sources to be named "soon". Untested near-products that aren't quite ready for release... Lets do it with stuff we can get and see what happens: Main Board: (truly open, schematics and all) : http://beagleboard.org/ http://beagleboard.org/ ($149) Screen : Lilliput 8" 1024x768 touch screen (http://www.case-mod.com/lilliput-809gl80npct-lcd-touch-screen-vga-monitor-charcoal-p-1206.html?src=fr http://www.case-mod.com/lilliput-809gl80npct-lcd-touch-scree...) ($259) Network : 802.11g wifi (http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Wi-Fi.html http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Wi-Fi.html) ($30) Battery: 7.4v LiIon 5200mAh (4 hours run) http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2210 http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&#38... ($50) Case: Injection Mold plastic (http://www.emachineshop.com/molding_machines/injection_molding.htm http://www.emachineshop.com/molding_machines/injection_moldi...) ($10) Cost to build a single one, ignoring volume discounts and cost to assemble: $498. Being able to make one without a proxy (ie. using a supply chain company, design firm and manufacturer). : Priceless.
willarson 18y ago
This is asking for speculative work on an awe-inspiring scale, and I find it brazenness to be a bit hard to swallow. Arrington wants other people to build something he wants, and will not pay them for it. Instead, he is offering a promise to eventually open source the design specs. Regardless of whether or not this project ever amounts to anything, and I don't believe it will without an individual at the epicenter with the talent and taste to make final decisions on all details, this is a scam for those who are contributing to it. I hate spec work posing itself as generosity, and the humanitarian effort this most closely resembles is King Leopold in the Congo.
gamerates 18y ago
I do a lot of reading online (one of my fav. sites being: http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/). I've been searching around for something like this for a while. Something that is easy to read on like the kindle, but can surf the web. Basically what I've been looking for is a sort of digital reader. I still print out a number of longer articles just because I find them easier to read on paper (and much more portable). This seems like a possible solution to that problem and could be the future of the news industry.
rickd 18y ago
I thought everyone here at HN was ....well, to put it simply, less negative. I mean, YC is all about doing new things, revolutionary or even just evolutionary changes to existing products or markets. Thinking outside the box. Changing! (etc etc ad nauseum). Why did this thread devolve into "it can't be done" or "it can't be done that cheaply" or "it's just product x" or, finally, "its just revision n+y of product x" I mean, ok, you think it's a crap idea: fine. You don't like it: fine. You have another product that fits this niche for you: fine. But I don't get why everyone is dumping on this. Let's keep the conversation constructive at least. Saying "it can't be done for x$" and laying out the prices of the components you assume is furthering the conversation. Saying "it can't be done"- and leaving it at that- is useless.
- h34t 18y ago
  My negative bias comes from having attempted a hardware development project in the past, with similarly ambitious and optimistic time frames, only to have reality kick in and demoralize the team by having the project drag on and on far beyond our projections (but well within industry norms). I think it's an awesome, exciting project that the world wants to happen. But if it turns out that the original timeline is skewed heavily toward irrational optimism, it may be demoralizing to those involved to have their expectations repeatedly quashed. However I may be wrong here, because if the supply chain company that's involved is being realistic and has experience, I may be the one who is off-base about the timeline. (I posted more details of my experience on the main thread). I agree with you that a lot of comments on here are negative without adding any value, ie. no new data / insights, just content-less, emotional pessimism.
god 18y ago
Do we really need that button on the front? I would find it much cooler, if the front was symmetrical and without any buttons. It would probably be eays to put a little on/off switch on the back. I would like a switch, that shows in a physical way if the thing is on or off. Buttons are much more confusing.
st3fan 18y ago
The next OpenMoko. I'm usually pretty excited about plans like this, but the way Arrington talks about this project makes me wonder whether he actually has any clue about what he is getting into. Specially, the part where he said that they will put together a nice software stack and then see on what hardware that will run. It is a very wrong approach in my opinion. Software is not the limiting factor here. It is the hardware. There should be a fine balance between the hardware and software choices for this thing. Ah well, they are probably having fun.
andrewbadera 18y ago
goodie, an EEE cloned as a tablet. so? next.
h34t 18y ago
I will be amazed (and applaud them) if they can pull this off as fast as he anticipates. I am no expert on hardware design, but I did manage the development of a touch-enabled control panel and electrical system for a home appliance, and it required a hell-load of work from a few dedicated staff over 3-4 months (and that was just to get a decent prototype -- refinements took additional months). Mind you, we had a couple of things going against us -- (1) a brand new cross-cultural team, which meant learning curves and inefficient communication; (2) we did it in China, where something as simple as renting an apartment can turn into a full-time job for two weeks due to their culture of distrust and inefficiency... (doing it in the U.S. must make things a lot smoother), (3) we didn't have the benefit of being able to take advantage of a lot of existing software, so as to avoid doing a lot of custom coding, and (4) we had trouble finding proper parts which could both do the job right & pass electrical inspections for european/US markets, whereas I'd imagine that their supply chain company should be able to find good parts quickly and easily. Maybe all of their advantages will result in a stellar timeline. Or maybe not. (When we began, we also thought we could get it done in a month or two.)

86 points by demandred 18y ago

I want in!

Didn't the XO project give us some indication on how difficult it is to create this type of thing? And unless Arrington is ready commit to this project full-time, it is going nowhere fast. I suspect that he is using his clout to simply trying to get into the inbox of vendors. Don't get me wrong, I'd love one. I suspect Apple is working on something like this. We have the technology of Air and the technology of iPhone. Their love child could fill this gap. I don't know going OS-less either. I think "Grandma" mode would be fine, otherwise, I'd rather have more control over the box.

ojbyrne 18y ago
If Apple does this, it's unlikely to be cheap.
dhbradshaw 18y ago
OS-less might be worth it if it allowed the thing to turn on and off in less than one second.
- bprater 18y ago
  My Mac does wake up in about a second right now. However, I see your point and totally agree.
cubrilovic 18y ago
there are people within TC and within the companies we are working with who are working on this fulltime

noonespecial 18y ago

As of this time, the touch screen will make the $200 price tag impossible. The $300-$400 is very possible however. If they do build it and keep it open (which is by no means a given when it comes to stuff like this), it could be a wonderful success.

brm 18y ago

Dead simple is near impossible to create with this many chef's stirring the pot already

mechanical_fish 18y ago
Yep. Three words: "Openmoko Train Wreck": http://www.vimeo.com/1366042?pg=embed&sec=1366042 http://www.vimeo.com/1366042?pg=embed&sec=1366042 After I saw this video, I really appreciated the time and money the Apple engineers must have spent in designing the iPhone keyboard. I've got a new policy: I refuse to get excited about open-source vaporware. Talk is cheap. Design is expensive, and having one thousand people work for one hour each is no substitute for having one person work a thousand hours.
- d0mine 18y ago
  iPhone 3G has its problems too http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=252923 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=252923
- Tichy 18y ago
  Any information on who actually worked on OpenMoko? Just because it is OpenSource doesn't mean that there are zillions of volunteers working on it. It might still just have been one company that screwed up it's product.
cubrilovic 18y ago
we will manage that. the dev community will be live tonight and it has already been split up into sub-projects with leads on each one.

gm 18y ago

Well I'll be damned... Is this a case of Arrington actually trying to make something happen instead of watching things happen? I for one, am surprised. I am very happily eating crow. Not that anyone should care, but I have always disliked Arrington and the other bunch of observers because they think they're important when all they do is watch things happen and then write about it. I hope this succeeds, and I hope they carry it through to completion. I will buy one of these for sure when it comes out.

webwright 18y ago
Watching things happen and writing about it IS important. There's no shame in admiring startups but not spinning one up. Of course, he HAS spun one up. He's got a big blog network in lots of countries, built up Crunchbase with a team of great devs and a reportedly cool API, etc. TechCrunch has tons of custom software. And it's profitable.
- gm 18y ago
  Admiring's fine, it's criticizing that I have a problem with. It takes all of half a second to say "Twitter stability sucks," but it takes a LOT more work to actually make a Twitter that is stable. Anyone can say what's wrong with the world.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Criticizing, too, is important. Without it, Twitter's stability would never improve. Hell, even with it, it seems unlikely to happen.
    - gm 18y ago
      Who cares? Do you think people writing about Twitter sucking actually makes them improve things? If this were so, then automated phone response systems would be history. So would off-shore call centers, and so on. Bad Twitter stability will get fixed if and when it translates into lost revenue and/or market share. From what I have been reading, it already is (apparently to FriendFeed if I remember correctly. I am not at all into the Twitter thing, so please correct me if I'm wrong). These are businesses. Profits, market share, revenues, that kind of thing matters. Everything else matters only when it translates into something that matters.

ph0rque 18y ago

Pixel Qi should allow the touch screen component to be very inexpensive...

imp 18y ago

He really is just describing a Nokia N810 tablet. When a reader suggested that, Arrington replied: "yes, although we want to build it a lot cheaper and have a much bigger screen." So, he expects to replicate the N810, but with a bigger screen and better price? How is he going to beat Nokia and still make a profit?

wmf 18y ago
What does TechCrunch have to do with profit? If bubble companies can build software, why not hardware?
- greyman 18y ago
  They are profitable, AFAIK, so that's what TC have to do with profit.
fallentimes 18y ago
I don't think he cares about the profit portion.
- imp 18y ago
  Okay, cool. In that case I'll take two.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
cubrilovic 18y ago
nothing to do with profit - they will retail at cost. it will be cheaper than the Nokia because of what the device doesn't have in it (eg. bluetooth, GPS, being browser only etc.)
- khangtoh 18y ago
  and the firefox default homepage is techcrunch.com and yes, you cannot change it according to the EULA.. now you see it.. ah...

river_styx 18y ago

Isn't he basically describing an iPod Touch with a bigger screen?

yangyang42 18y ago
... but only wants to pay $200 for it.
- deepster 18y ago
  ...and he only wants to pay you with a free tablet!
  - aardvarkious 18y ago
    I didn't see anywhere that the early prototypes would be free to developers: just that they would get first dibs.
- babul 18y ago
  He will get his for free of course, as will a bunch of celebs and media tech "stars" etc. etc., but the rest of us will be the ones who have to pay for it.
  - ph0rque 18y ago
    As long as it's only $200, I don't mind...
jodrellblank 18y ago
No. Sites I want YC to fund include a new product review site. One that focuses on the details of a device's software rather than pure hardware spec. The iPhone/iPod touch is far from just a tablet with firefox (safari) on it. It's understandable, affordant, responsive, coherent, slick, sleek, predictable, wonderful. It has QWAN by the bucket load. It DWIM. And you don't get a feel for that in a review that talks about its 128Mb RAM and 400Mhz processor and IMAP email support. That makes it sound identical to my Windows Mobile HTC, yet between the two is a vast yawning cavern of difference. What he describes is, frankly, a crap idea. It's got a big touch screen, processor, memory, storage, OS, power supply, video card, mainboard, USB controller, WLAN, but No keyboard, and with extremely limited software. Yes, a general computer with extremely limited software. Exactly what drives the development of OpenMoko, pwnagetool, Linux, ipodlinux, DD-WRT and openWRT, linux for the PS2 and on and on. Has he seen the Asus EEE inspired Dell E? The other dozens of small, cheap, wireless-enabled, flash driven linux subnotebooks?

rw 18y ago

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2689707981_6c5fc0c808_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2689707981_6c5fc0c808_o.... I don't think it would be using Windows Firefox!

cubrilovic 18y ago
haha def not

martythemaniak 18y ago

My two main thoughts on this are: 1. It won't cost $200. The Nokia N810 has similar specs and had a price drop to $300, so I don't see how this will happen. It might be possible to source the parts for 200, but not build it, ship it and make a profit. 2. Why not use Ubuntu MID? I have not used it, but it was made for these kind of devices. Certainly much easier and cheaper than writing custom linux/ff code. Just add Firefox with a preset homepage to the startup and you're done :)

biosoup 18y ago
Do you think that they want to make profit? Didn't Arrington said that the whole device will be open source?
- vaksel 18y ago
  Open source just means Arrington won't need to pay coders to write the software, and will get to enjoy discounts from people who have contacts to help build the hardware.
  - Herring 18y ago
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    - vaksel 18y ago
      just clarifying, since it sounded like he thought open source = non-profit
- cubrilovic 18y ago
  not a profit incentive. we just want cool hardware and want it to be open
greyman 18y ago
No, The Nokia N810 has NOT similar specs. If nothing else, it has keyboard.

biosoup 18y ago

I did a research about this subject and it could be done... even with price around 200$. They will face two big problems: 1) touch screen - what type they would use? how it "lights"? weight? 2) battery - capacity? POSITION of battery! and few other problems such power supply (integrated?). CPU, RAM, SSD are not problems, they are cheap and really easili intergrated, OS is not problem too (already seen such devices with Linux). And the last thing is design... lets face it. It's important how it will look and feel when carrying. And I'm not talking about catching the right size of it (in my research A4 is too big and A5 is too small). So lets see what will happen... I offered I will try to help them, what about you?

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

lurker 18y ago

is techcrunch spamming YNews? why would copies of the same story be at the top of the news list?

cubrilovic 18y ago
hey I just found this thread! (read the site every day though)

rms 18y ago

Wait for the new OLPC.

cubrilovic 18y ago
like saying wait for peace in the middle east (both UN initiatives)
- rms 18y ago
  They are doing much better at iterating the OLPC than making peace in the Middle East...

rms 18y ago

A perfect tablet like this would go a long way toward solving #2 on the YC idea list. Also see Canonical's UMPC GUI.

rms 18y ago

This isn't going to happen for $200 until http://www.pixelqi.com http://www.pixelqi.com starts selling their second generation screen.

ivankirigin 18y ago

Can someone point out a successful open source hardware effort? I'm tracking bug labs, open moko, and some router efforts. None are mainstream. None come close to the appeal of Apple products. Hardware is really hard. Most people reading TechCrunch probably don't understand this.

wmf 18y ago
Don't forget Neuros, Chumby, and OGP; I wouldn't call any of them successful.
utnick 18y ago
There are quite a few open source guitar effects pedals floating around...commercially successful? probably no.
Tichy 18y ago
Doesn't mean that hardware has to remain hard forever. Maybe something could be done to make it simpler. Some things already have been done. For example, it is very simple to build your own PC out of readymade components.
- corentin 18y ago
  By hard, we don't mean "difficult to understand and master"; one can learn electronics on his own in the same way he can learn programming. The tools and skills required are on par with software (well, the tools are usually better); it's just that hardware requires much more capital and time to build, and you have to deal with a lot of logistics and business issues. A small team with no capital can build a ready-to-ship software product. A small team with no capital can build a working hardware prototype, but the step from prototype to actual, ready-to-sell product requires lots of resources.
  - Tichy 18y ago
    And I think that can change, for example because of Rapid Prototyping, Build On Demand and so on.

tocomment 18y ago

I'm betting Apple has a patent on just about every part of this thing. I hope someone can tell me I'm wrong.

cubrilovic 18y ago
great point and something we have looked into. nothing like an Apple v Open Source patent war

sd 18y ago

Back at the 2001 Comdex, Bill Gates announced that by 2007, such devices would be the most popular form of PC in the U.S. Although his timing was off, I think Gates was definitely on to something. Yet as brm notes, it's probably going to take more than just the open source community. Open source seems great for advancing the bleeding-edge; but honestly, unless money is on the line, how many devs are going to cut out their cool feature that they spent hours developing, just because it's hard to use or might make the device more complicated? Perhaps, a team (but not necessarily a large team) of hackers devoted full-time to making a successful interface / kiosk for this might make it big. Perhaps, such a business might make a good fit for Y Combinator. ;-)

cubrilovic 18y ago
yes Gates was onto something. nobody has done it right though
jkent 18y ago
In Gates' 1996 'The Road Ahead' he was talking about the convergence of devices to what seemed like a mobile, touch screen web browser (within 5 years, a bit optimistic). He talks about the wallet pc, a sketch of which looks like an iphone in landscape mode. Why didn't Microsoft try this?
- raganwald 18y ago
  I owned a TabletPC. I argue they did try it, and did a decent job of it. However, the big roadblock was the fact that they are at the mercy of their hardware vendors. Consider multi-touch. When Apple decided that multi-touch is the future, they simply started building it into their laptops. If Microsoft decides multi-touch is the future, they build an API and some of the vendors offer a few models with multi-touch and the market decides whether it wants to pay a premium for multi-touch or not. Meanwhile app vendors sit on the sidelines while everyone plays chicken and egg. This is why tablets went nowhere... the market refused to pay a premium for tablets, so the vendors only made a few, which kept prices high, which kept sales low, and so forth...
g00dn3ss 18y ago

danw 18y ago

Sounds like an Asus Eee PC with a slightly different form factor or a Nokia Internet Tablet to me

mannylee1 18y ago

Tell me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the parts alone cost around $200. I am not saying that this is impossible, but reliable batteries alone have got to be pretty expensive.

cubrilovic 18y ago
the price point we are at in our spec already is at $150 so we have left $50 or more to add cooler shit
- rms 18y ago
  Where are you getting the screen?
  - cubrilovic 18y ago
    our supply chain guys sourced it - we haven't set yet if we are going LCD or exact specific specs (we need to run power tests). the dual touch pad sitting behind it is coming out of a company that hasn't seen their tech integrated into a major product yet. im sorry we cant mention company names just yet - we are doing this through proxy (ie. using a supply chain company, design firm and manufacturer). I am hoping I can publish the full tech details at some point in the next 24h and we can go from there
    - noonespecial 18y ago
      It always seems like it works out this way. Secret sources to be named "soon". Untested near-products that aren't quite ready for release... Lets do it with stuff we can get and see what happens: Main Board: (truly open, schematics and all) : http://beagleboard.org/ http://beagleboard.org/ ($149) Screen : Lilliput 8" 1024x768 touch screen (http://www.case-mod.com/lilliput-809gl80npct-lcd-touch-screen-vga-monitor-charcoal-p-1206.html?src=fr http://www.case-mod.com/lilliput-809gl80npct-lcd-touch-scree...) ($259) Network : 802.11g wifi (http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Wi-Fi.html http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Wi-Fi.html) ($30) Battery: 7.4v LiIon 5200mAh (4 hours run) http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2210 http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&#38... ($50) Case: Injection Mold plastic (http://www.emachineshop.com/molding_machines/injection_molding.htm http://www.emachineshop.com/molding_machines/injection_moldi...) ($10) Cost to build a single one, ignoring volume discounts and cost to assemble: $498. Being able to make one without a proxy (ie. using a supply chain company, design firm and manufacturer). : Priceless.

willarson 18y ago

This is asking for speculative work on an awe-inspiring scale, and I find it brazenness to be a bit hard to swallow. Arrington wants other people to build something he wants, and will not pay them for it. Instead, he is offering a promise to eventually open source the design specs. Regardless of whether or not this project ever amounts to anything, and I don't believe it will without an individual at the epicenter with the talent and taste to make final decisions on all details, this is a scam for those who are contributing to it. I hate spec work posing itself as generosity, and the humanitarian effort this most closely resembles is King Leopold in the Congo.

gamerates 18y ago

I do a lot of reading online (one of my fav. sites being: http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/). I've been searching around for something like this for a while. Something that is easy to read on like the kindle, but can surf the web. Basically what I've been looking for is a sort of digital reader. I still print out a number of longer articles just because I find them easier to read on paper (and much more portable). This seems like a possible solution to that problem and could be the future of the news industry.

rickd 18y ago

I thought everyone here at HN was ....well, to put it simply, less negative. I mean, YC is all about doing new things, revolutionary or even just evolutionary changes to existing products or markets. Thinking outside the box. Changing! (etc etc ad nauseum). Why did this thread devolve into "it can't be done" or "it can't be done that cheaply" or "it's just product x" or, finally, "its just revision n+y of product x" I mean, ok, you think it's a crap idea: fine. You don't like it: fine. You have another product that fits this niche for you: fine. But I don't get why everyone is dumping on this. Let's keep the conversation constructive at least. Saying "it can't be done for x$" and laying out the prices of the components you assume is furthering the conversation. Saying "it can't be done"- and leaving it at that- is useless.

h34t 18y ago
My negative bias comes from having attempted a hardware development project in the past, with similarly ambitious and optimistic time frames, only to have reality kick in and demoralize the team by having the project drag on and on far beyond our projections (but well within industry norms). I think it's an awesome, exciting project that the world wants to happen. But if it turns out that the original timeline is skewed heavily toward irrational optimism, it may be demoralizing to those involved to have their expectations repeatedly quashed. However I may be wrong here, because if the supply chain company that's involved is being realistic and has experience, I may be the one who is off-base about the timeline. (I posted more details of my experience on the main thread). I agree with you that a lot of comments on here are negative without adding any value, ie. no new data / insights, just content-less, emotional pessimism.

god 18y ago

Do we really need that button on the front? I would find it much cooler, if the front was symmetrical and without any buttons. It would probably be eays to put a little on/off switch on the back. I would like a switch, that shows in a physical way if the thing is on or off. Buttons are much more confusing.

st3fan 18y ago

The next OpenMoko. I'm usually pretty excited about plans like this, but the way Arrington talks about this project makes me wonder whether he actually has any clue about what he is getting into. Specially, the part where he said that they will put together a nice software stack and then see on what hardware that will run. It is a very wrong approach in my opinion. Software is not the limiting factor here. It is the hardware. There should be a fine balance between the hardware and software choices for this thing. Ah well, they are probably having fun.

andrewbadera 18y ago

goodie, an EEE cloned as a tablet. so? next.

h34t 18y ago

I will be amazed (and applaud them) if they can pull this off as fast as he anticipates. I am no expert on hardware design, but I did manage the development of a touch-enabled control panel and electrical system for a home appliance, and it required a hell-load of work from a few dedicated staff over 3-4 months (and that was just to get a decent prototype -- refinements took additional months). Mind you, we had a couple of things going against us -- (1) a brand new cross-cultural team, which meant learning curves and inefficient communication; (2) we did it in China, where something as simple as renting an apartment can turn into a full-time job for two weeks due to their culture of distrust and inefficiency... (doing it in the U.S. must make things a lot smoother), (3) we didn't have the benefit of being able to take advantage of a lot of existing software, so as to avoid doing a lot of custom coding, and (4) we had trouble finding proper parts which could both do the job right & pass electrical inspections for european/US markets, whereas I'd imagine that their supply chain company should be able to find good parts quickly and easily. Maybe all of their advantages will result in a stellar timeline. Or maybe not. (When we began, we also thought we could get it done in a month or two.)