4 ms·

Hack, according to Keynes we are supposed to be working 15-hour weeks by now. Four-day week is well overdue. http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pd

Hack, according to Keynes we are supposed to be working 15-hour weeks by now. Four-day week is well overdue. http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf

runawaybottle 6y ago
I feel like the blue collar economy is still dictating the reality of the white collar economy. They work service hours where you have to literally be somewhere for a shift. That is what is defining the standard for other types of work in a misguided fashion. It took a global pandemic to have companies come to their senses (by sheer force) to make remote work a first class citizen. Change is too slow because we’re tied to antiquated concepts. Why are some professions doing a shift? Does your software open at 8am and then close up for the night at 5pm? If so, then yeah you need shift workers. If not, then please, just stop it.
- benibela 6y ago
  Many libraries (the book kind) turn their webpage catalogue off for the night and turn it back on in the morning
  - tokai 6y ago
    Never heard of this. Could you give an example of a library that does this?
    - benibela 6y ago
      This one in Germany: https://webopac.stadtbibliothek-aachen.de/libero/WebOpac.cls/ https://webopac.stadtbibliothek-aachen.de/libero/WebOpac.cls... And probably all that use such a webopac system
      - tokai 6y ago
        ah interesting. Up here in DK its been the opposite the last decade. With patrons being able to access the physical library out of hours.
- Noos 6y ago
  ...you really want to be on call 24 hours a day? Because that is what you are asking for. The shifts are good for you, because they limit the times when work can command your presence and force businesses to hire multiple people to staff the day. Remote work is already showing the flaws of the reverse, because now people have issues separating work and real life since there is no clearly modeled time delineation any more.
sdoering 6y ago
Why should we now work 15 hours a week? Companies have found that it is much more rewarding to keep workers working 40 hours (in Europe) or more (many parts of the world, including the US) or more, and to translate the productivity gains into bonuses for top management, dividends for shareholders and increased share prices (for shareholders and top management) [1]. Without the necessary regulation, this process will not be significantly altered either, in my opinion. I firmly believe that hardly any (large) company will be prepared to significantly improve conditions for employees without external pressure - at the expense of shareholder value. For example, it is perfectly normal for a company like Accenture to pay a 10% higher dividend for the past fiscal year, while dismissing 5% of its employees worldwide. We don't even have to dream of wage increases for employees in the 10% range here. And ACN is just one example because I happen to know the numbers right now. What company increases its employees' wages by the same amount as it increases the dividend for shareholders? I hardly know of any company that does that. [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=development+productivity+wages+us&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=development+productivity+wages+us&...
- romeo88 6y ago
  This is not bad in itself. It's just the first step in the market evolution. Given a free market (barriers aside) an equilibrium will be found sooner or later, but this step needs to happen first.
  - newsclues 6y ago
    Why would we expect a not free market to behave as a free market?
  - coldpie 6y ago
    Talking about a free market with perfectly informed, rational actors is like talking about perfect, frictionless spheres in a vacuum in physics. It's fine for theorizing, but useless once you're building things in the real world.
    - nickpp 6y ago
elindbe2 6y ago
Most of us decently paid professionals could do something like that, whether it's working 15 hour weeks (might be hard to find something like that ) or working a contract for a few months each year or just quitting after working 37.5% of a normal career. That's my plan. It would be especially possible if you lived similarly to how average people did in Keynes' day: e.g. smaller housing, limited car ownership, home cooked meals, simple hobbies. The beauty of it is you still can take advantage of new tech because it has become so cheap.
icedchai 6y ago
We kind of do, we just pretend to work the other 25. Or fill it with garbage, like pointless meetings, etc. My ideal job would be ~20 hours/week.

runawaybottle 6y ago

I feel like the blue collar economy is still dictating the reality of the white collar economy. They work service hours where you have to literally be somewhere for a shift. That is what is defining the standard for other types of work in a misguided fashion. It took a global pandemic to have companies come to their senses (by sheer force) to make remote work a first class citizen. Change is too slow because we’re tied to antiquated concepts. Why are some professions doing a shift? Does your software open at 8am and then close up for the night at 5pm? If so, then yeah you need shift workers. If not, then please, just stop it.

benibela 6y ago
Many libraries (the book kind) turn their webpage catalogue off for the night and turn it back on in the morning
- tokai 6y ago
  Never heard of this. Could you give an example of a library that does this?
  - benibela 6y ago
    This one in Germany: https://webopac.stadtbibliothek-aachen.de/libero/WebOpac.cls/ https://webopac.stadtbibliothek-aachen.de/libero/WebOpac.cls... And probably all that use such a webopac system
    - tokai 6y ago
      ah interesting. Up here in DK its been the opposite the last decade. With patrons being able to access the physical library out of hours.
Noos 6y ago
...you really want to be on call 24 hours a day? Because that is what you are asking for. The shifts are good for you, because they limit the times when work can command your presence and force businesses to hire multiple people to staff the day. Remote work is already showing the flaws of the reverse, because now people have issues separating work and real life since there is no clearly modeled time delineation any more.

sdoering 6y ago

Why should we now work 15 hours a week? Companies have found that it is much more rewarding to keep workers working 40 hours (in Europe) or more (many parts of the world, including the US) or more, and to translate the productivity gains into bonuses for top management, dividends for shareholders and increased share prices (for shareholders and top management) [1]. Without the necessary regulation, this process will not be significantly altered either, in my opinion. I firmly believe that hardly any (large) company will be prepared to significantly improve conditions for employees without external pressure - at the expense of shareholder value. For example, it is perfectly normal for a company like Accenture to pay a 10% higher dividend for the past fiscal year, while dismissing 5% of its employees worldwide. We don't even have to dream of wage increases for employees in the 10% range here. And ACN is just one example because I happen to know the numbers right now. What company increases its employees' wages by the same amount as it increases the dividend for shareholders? I hardly know of any company that does that. [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=development+productivity+wages+us&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=development+productivity+wages+us&...

romeo88 6y ago
This is not bad in itself. It's just the first step in the market evolution. Given a free market (barriers aside) an equilibrium will be found sooner or later, but this step needs to happen first.
- newsclues 6y ago
  Why would we expect a not free market to behave as a free market?
- coldpie 6y ago
  Talking about a free market with perfectly informed, rational actors is like talking about perfect, frictionless spheres in a vacuum in physics. It's fine for theorizing, but useless once you're building things in the real world.
  - nickpp 6y ago

elindbe2 6y ago

Most of us decently paid professionals could do something like that, whether it's working 15 hour weeks (might be hard to find something like that ) or working a contract for a few months each year or just quitting after working 37.5% of a normal career. That's my plan. It would be especially possible if you lived similarly to how average people did in Keynes' day: e.g. smaller housing, limited car ownership, home cooked meals, simple hobbies. The beauty of it is you still can take advantage of new tech because it has become so cheap.

icedchai 6y ago

We kind of do, we just pretend to work the other 25. Or fill it with garbage, like pointless meetings, etc. My ideal job would be ~20 hours/week.