5 ms·

Solar Fire Breakthrough

108 points by ph0rque 16y ago

adrianwaj 16y ago
http://www.zenithsolar.com/ http://www.zenithsolar.com/ looks more advanced - pv and thermal. What are the efficiency of mirrors these days? I'm sure better mirrors equals more power. Concentrated solar power (solar thermal) also uses mirrors but in closer range to the water: http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/en/power-generation/renewables/solar-power/concentrated-solar-power.htm http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/en/power-generation/renewab... http://www.israel21c.org/environment/siemens-buys-israels-solel-solar-for-418-million http://www.israel21c.org/environment/siemens-buys-israels-so...
- moonsu 16y ago
  Zenith Solar is certainly more advanced. Thanks for pointing it out. The difference between the two projects though is open source vs proprietary. Zenith looks very impressive but Solar Fire is meant to put solar power cheaply and easily into anyone's hands. They are both worth following IMO
  - adrianwaj 16y ago
    Yes I agree, I really like the way Solar Fire's mirrors can be bent.
    - moonsu 16y ago
      Have any idea how much a ZenithSolar unit costs? Apparently they've given an Israeli community of 1100 people a surplus of electricity with only 16 units.
      - adrianwaj 16y ago
        No, I don't know, but could investigate. It'd be interesting to see a device that was placed in a location over the course of a year and measured different facets of sun and wind for that location and enabled simulation of various technologies.
      - leot 16y ago
        Their website says nothing, but they link (http://green-energy-reviews.com/zenith-turns-an-israeli-kibbutz-solar/ http://green-energy-reviews.com/zenith-turns-an-israeli-kibb...) to a video that shows a presentation with a slide of their technology with the text: 5 kWh PV + Thermal -- 30,000 Euros ... and they claim their products will last 20 years.
        moonsu 16y ago
        There will certainly be maintenance costs during that 20 years though. I do like the idea that as PV efficiencies improve you only have to swap out one cell per dish
  - plinden 16y ago
    Each ZenithSolar Z20 unit generates 5 KWh Electricity plus an additional 11 KWh hot water (up to 100 degrees C). 18 units at Kibbutz Yavne are now providing all the hot water needs for 400 people, the electricity is all be sold into the electric grid. ZenithSolar is now installing new fields in Australia and China...paul.linden@zenithsolar.com
FrojoS 16y ago
I wasn't aware of this huge project [1]. This one seems to be only a smal part of it [2]. This really looks awesome and game changing! I'm very excited to see if I can contribute. [1] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page [2] http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/2011/03/open-source-micro-factory/ http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/2011/03/open-source-micro-fac...
- moonsu 16y ago
  They have a TED Talk which is exciting to watch as well http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html
  - evangineer 16y ago
    I was fortunate enough to meet Marcin a number of years ago at a conference in Vienna. He was even then working on developing his Open Source Ecology ideas & hardware.
  - FrojoS 16y ago
    Yeah, I watched it later the night. Kept me up way to long. I'm still very excited about this!
- elifarley 16y ago
  Yep, it's part of the Global Village Construction Set (GVCS) [1]. You can read the crash course [2] to get a better idea of our project, then see how you can get involved [3], or read a list of specific project needs [4]. All plans of our current and future machines can be used by anyone without restrictions. [1] http://opensourceecology.org/ http://opensourceecology.org/ [2] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Crash_course_on_OSE http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Crash_course_on_OSE [3] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Get_involved http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Get_involved [4] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Project_needs#Specific_Project_Needs http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Project_needs#Specific_Project_...
mrb 16y ago
Solar thermal power has always looked much cheaper to me, compared to photovolcaics. Even Google recognizes its potential. They invested in a solar thermal power company a few months ago: http://venturebeat.com/2008/05/13/brightsource-snags-115m-for-solar-thermal-project/ http://venturebeat.com/2008/05/13/brightsource-snags-115m-fo...
pieter 16y ago
This is interesting, and as for comparison, the construction cost of this is just a bit higher than for nuclear ($1/watt at 25% capacity for this vs $5billion / ~1.2GW at 95% capacity for nuclear), though that doesn't include labor for the solar. As for comparing operating cost, I have no idea. Obviously this is meant for poorer countries, but I can't imagine how much work would be involved in turning 5billion square foot of mirrors. The nice thing about this is of course the scale; you can just have one guy maintaining a small installation.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- FrojoS 16y ago
  Good point but I doubt it will cost even a fraction of nuclear in the future. I just remembered an interview from MIT Technology Review, about a year ago: “The guys can be drunk when they place the rows; it really doesn’t matter. Our tolerance is plus or minus a foot.” [1] Bill Gross, eSolar [2] Unfortunately, the interview is behind a pay wall [3]. Seems like they found an easy and robust way to do pretty much all the calibration after construction and fully automatic. I wonder what the current status is. [1] http://gigaom.com/cleantech/daily-sprout-258/ http://gigaom.com/cleantech/daily-sprout-258/ [2] http://www.esolar.com/ http://www.esolar.com/ [3] http://www.technologyreview.com/business/24560/?ref=rss http://www.technologyreview.com/business/24560/?ref=rss
loup-vaillant 16y ago
What impresses me most is how accessible this is. Even a child could operate this solar panel. I also feel you don't need many specialized skills to build it from scratch once you have the schematics. We need more ideas like this. [edit]: FrojoS' links show they do have more ideas like this.
wazoox 16y ago
It's really promising. I'm a bit surprised they're apparently considering a piston steam engine over a turbine; after all turbines superceded most other steam engines in boats, power plants, etc?
- easp 16y ago
  I'd imagine that machining a piston engine is simpler and moraccessable than machining an efficient turbine.

108 points by ph0rque 16y ago

http://www.zenithsolar.com/ http://www.zenithsolar.com/ looks more advanced - pv and thermal. What are the efficiency of mirrors these days? I'm sure better mirrors equals more power. Concentrated solar power (solar thermal) also uses mirrors but in closer range to the water: http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/en/power-generation/renewables/solar-power/concentrated-solar-power.htm http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/en/power-generation/renewab... http://www.israel21c.org/environment/siemens-buys-israels-solel-solar-for-418-million http://www.israel21c.org/environment/siemens-buys-israels-so...

moonsu 16y ago
Zenith Solar is certainly more advanced. Thanks for pointing it out. The difference between the two projects though is open source vs proprietary. Zenith looks very impressive but Solar Fire is meant to put solar power cheaply and easily into anyone's hands. They are both worth following IMO
- adrianwaj 16y ago
  Yes I agree, I really like the way Solar Fire's mirrors can be bent.
  - moonsu 16y ago
    Have any idea how much a ZenithSolar unit costs? Apparently they've given an Israeli community of 1100 people a surplus of electricity with only 16 units.
    - adrianwaj 16y ago
      No, I don't know, but could investigate. It'd be interesting to see a device that was placed in a location over the course of a year and measured different facets of sun and wind for that location and enabled simulation of various technologies.
    - leot 16y ago
      Their website says nothing, but they link (http://green-energy-reviews.com/zenith-turns-an-israeli-kibbutz-solar/ http://green-energy-reviews.com/zenith-turns-an-israeli-kibb...) to a video that shows a presentation with a slide of their technology with the text: 5 kWh PV + Thermal -- 30,000 Euros ... and they claim their products will last 20 years.
      - moonsu 16y ago
        There will certainly be maintenance costs during that 20 years though. I do like the idea that as PV efficiencies improve you only have to swap out one cell per dish
- plinden 16y ago
  Each ZenithSolar Z20 unit generates 5 KWh Electricity plus an additional 11 KWh hot water (up to 100 degrees C). 18 units at Kibbutz Yavne are now providing all the hot water needs for 400 people, the electricity is all be sold into the electric grid. ZenithSolar is now installing new fields in Australia and China...paul.linden@zenithsolar.com

FrojoS 16y ago

I wasn't aware of this huge project [1]. This one seems to be only a smal part of it [2]. This really looks awesome and game changing! I'm very excited to see if I can contribute. [1] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page [2] http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/2011/03/open-source-micro-factory/ http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/2011/03/open-source-micro-fac...

moonsu 16y ago
They have a TED Talk which is exciting to watch as well http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html
- evangineer 16y ago
  I was fortunate enough to meet Marcin a number of years ago at a conference in Vienna. He was even then working on developing his Open Source Ecology ideas & hardware.
- FrojoS 16y ago
  Yeah, I watched it later the night. Kept me up way to long. I'm still very excited about this!
elifarley 16y ago
Yep, it's part of the Global Village Construction Set (GVCS) [1]. You can read the crash course [2] to get a better idea of our project, then see how you can get involved [3], or read a list of specific project needs [4]. All plans of our current and future machines can be used by anyone without restrictions. [1] http://opensourceecology.org/ http://opensourceecology.org/ [2] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Crash_course_on_OSE http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Crash_course_on_OSE [3] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Get_involved http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Get_involved [4] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Project_needs#Specific_Project_Needs http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Project_needs#Specific_Project_...

mrb 16y ago

Solar thermal power has always looked much cheaper to me, compared to photovolcaics. Even Google recognizes its potential. They invested in a solar thermal power company a few months ago: http://venturebeat.com/2008/05/13/brightsource-snags-115m-for-solar-thermal-project/ http://venturebeat.com/2008/05/13/brightsource-snags-115m-fo...

pieter 16y ago

This is interesting, and as for comparison, the construction cost of this is just a bit higher than for nuclear ($1/watt at 25% capacity for this vs $5billion / ~1.2GW at 95% capacity for nuclear), though that doesn't include labor for the solar. As for comparing operating cost, I have no idea. Obviously this is meant for poorer countries, but I can't imagine how much work would be involved in turning 5billion square foot of mirrors. The nice thing about this is of course the scale; you can just have one guy maintaining a small installation.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
FrojoS 16y ago
Good point but I doubt it will cost even a fraction of nuclear in the future. I just remembered an interview from MIT Technology Review, about a year ago: “The guys can be drunk when they place the rows; it really doesn’t matter. Our tolerance is plus or minus a foot.” [1] Bill Gross, eSolar [2] Unfortunately, the interview is behind a pay wall [3]. Seems like they found an easy and robust way to do pretty much all the calibration after construction and fully automatic. I wonder what the current status is. [1] http://gigaom.com/cleantech/daily-sprout-258/ http://gigaom.com/cleantech/daily-sprout-258/ [2] http://www.esolar.com/ http://www.esolar.com/ [3] http://www.technologyreview.com/business/24560/?ref=rss http://www.technologyreview.com/business/24560/?ref=rss

loup-vaillant 16y ago

What impresses me most is how accessible this is. Even a child could operate this solar panel. I also feel you don't need many specialized skills to build it from scratch once you have the schematics. We need more ideas like this. [edit]: FrojoS' links show they do have more ideas like this.

wazoox 16y ago

It's really promising. I'm a bit surprised they're apparently considering a piston steam engine over a turbine; after all turbines superceded most other steam engines in boats, power plants, etc?

easp 16y ago
I'd imagine that machining a piston engine is simpler and moraccessable than machining an efficient turbine.