5 ms·

TBH in many places in the US you still have regular shootings, and bullets also do get into homes. Residential homes are also built way more crappily now than t

by est31 6y ago

TBH in many places in the US you still have regular shootings, and bullets also do get into homes. Residential homes are also built way more crappily now than the log cabins of old times. So nothing much changed about the shooting part. Compare it to Europe which has deweaponized itself.

barnesto 6y ago
Compare it to what? People are going to people. Just because your continent doesn't have the same gun laws as the US doesn't mean there's any less crime - gun related or otherwise. There are quite a few Europeans that wish they had guns so they weren't stabbed, dashed with acid, or beheaded.
- JacobSuperslav 6y ago
  acids and beheadings? these happened a few times in the last decade on the entire continent
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    Stabbing is fairly frequent though, given that you can use basic tools or kitchen utensils for it. The main point still stands though; guns don't cause violence and death, people do. It's the attitude and circumstances, not the tools.
    - g8oz 6y ago
      The qualitative nature of our tools enable and facilitate quantitative outcomes.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  > There are quite a few Europeans that wish they had guns so they weren't stabbed, dashed with acid, or beheaded. There isn't a pro-gun-rights movement to speak of in the UK. Not sure about the rest of Europe. As JacobSuperslav said, acid attacks and beheadings are extremely rare events in Europe, and aren't at all representative of the average murder. This is why they make international news. Stabbings are of course more common.
sushshshsh 6y ago
Europe! Deweaponized! HAH! Compare the murder rates of Detroit MI, Cheyenne WY, London, and Shanghai, and then tell me which city has a weapon problem and which city has a culture problem, or both!
- sxv 6y ago
  Murder rates (per 100k people): Detroit: 38.8 (2018); Cheyenne: 3.1 (2018); London: 1.84 (2019); China: 1.0 (2011); Not sure where you are going with this, but I'd say the answer is Detroit??
  - cyberlurker 6y ago
    I’m confused by this comment too. Why Detroit? It has the third highest rate of any US city in 2017. Was that the point? For comparison the US national rate in 2019 was 5 and NYC (more comparable to London and Shanghai) has a rate of 2.8. Yeah, look ... I like the 2A too and don’t think guns cause higher murder rates. But there is no data to support the narrative that Europe and other countries are more dangerous in some way because they don’t have guns. Edit: To be clear, there is no evidence that they are more dangerous. They look safer.
    - hnick 6y ago
      I think "culture problem" is code for something else given that one of the other cities was also US.
    - sushshshsh 6y ago
      NYC is smoothed out by a population of millions of people. Take a look at DC... Take a look at the average small American town. Most have 0 murders, or 1 or 2. Not everywhere is like Chicago and Detroit with hundreds of murders a year
  - sushshshsh 6y ago
    "Europeans" (everyone from Ireland to Moldova?) are constantly talking about how safe their countries are, but the reality is that in America, not everywhere is Detroit or Baltimore. You guys are literally falling victim to fake news. The average small town will have a maximum of 1 or 2 murders per year. Cheyenne has only 60,000 people.
NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
This isn't true. Shootings are very, very rare. And they are concentrated in certain types of places (e.g., poor urban ghetto) such that the parts of the country that aren't these places have vanishingly small probabilities of being hurt by a shooting. Gun murders in the U.S. are a very low percentage of deaths (0.39%) and preventable deaths (~1.1%, there's some disagreement about what's "preventable"). That's 0.0036% of the population per year gun-murdered. That this statistic is 3x some other country's is irrelevant because 3x a small number is still a small number. If your goal is to prevent untimely deaths, focus on boring things like falls, car accidents, and diabetes.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >. And they are concentrated in certain types of places (e.g., poor urban ghetto) such that the parts of the country that aren't these places have vanishingly small probabilities of being hurt by a shooting. And even then they are basically concentrated around illegal parts of the economy. Drug traffickers, pimps, etc. can't use the courts and the police so when it comes to settling disputes they have to DIY their own threats of violence that other people usually outsource to the state.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
    This is an interesting thought. Sounds correct to me. It seems like ending the War on Drugs would be a conceptually simple way of fixing most of this.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      It's a big factor; legalizing soft drugs and managing hard drugs (like methadone clinics) will definitely help. Social safety nets to help prevent people going poor. Quality education for everyone. Quality housing for everyone. There's a lot of things the US can do to massively improve the quality of life for everyone, it just means funneling some of the trillions it puts into the military and "the economy" (like the trillion that vaporized within minutes last march) elsewhere. I mean they can solve a lot of people's problems with a trillion dollars.

by est31 6y ago

barnesto 6y ago

Compare it to what? People are going to people. Just because your continent doesn't have the same gun laws as the US doesn't mean there's any less crime - gun related or otherwise. There are quite a few Europeans that wish they had guns so they weren't stabbed, dashed with acid, or beheaded.

JacobSuperslav 6y ago
acids and beheadings? these happened a few times in the last decade on the entire continent
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Stabbing is fairly frequent though, given that you can use basic tools or kitchen utensils for it. The main point still stands though; guns don't cause violence and death, people do. It's the attitude and circumstances, not the tools.
  - g8oz 6y ago
    The qualitative nature of our tools enable and facilitate quantitative outcomes.
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
> There are quite a few Europeans that wish they had guns so they weren't stabbed, dashed with acid, or beheaded. There isn't a pro-gun-rights movement to speak of in the UK. Not sure about the rest of Europe. As JacobSuperslav said, acid attacks and beheadings are extremely rare events in Europe, and aren't at all representative of the average murder. This is why they make international news. Stabbings are of course more common.

sushshshsh 6y ago

Europe! Deweaponized! HAH! Compare the murder rates of Detroit MI, Cheyenne WY, London, and Shanghai, and then tell me which city has a weapon problem and which city has a culture problem, or both!

sxv 6y ago
Murder rates (per 100k people): Detroit: 38.8 (2018); Cheyenne: 3.1 (2018); London: 1.84 (2019); China: 1.0 (2011); Not sure where you are going with this, but I'd say the answer is Detroit??
- cyberlurker 6y ago
  I’m confused by this comment too. Why Detroit? It has the third highest rate of any US city in 2017. Was that the point? For comparison the US national rate in 2019 was 5 and NYC (more comparable to London and Shanghai) has a rate of 2.8. Yeah, look ... I like the 2A too and don’t think guns cause higher murder rates. But there is no data to support the narrative that Europe and other countries are more dangerous in some way because they don’t have guns. Edit: To be clear, there is no evidence that they are more dangerous. They look safer.
  - hnick 6y ago
    I think "culture problem" is code for something else given that one of the other cities was also US.
  - sushshshsh 6y ago
    NYC is smoothed out by a population of millions of people. Take a look at DC... Take a look at the average small American town. Most have 0 murders, or 1 or 2. Not everywhere is like Chicago and Detroit with hundreds of murders a year
- sushshshsh 6y ago
  "Europeans" (everyone from Ireland to Moldova?) are constantly talking about how safe their countries are, but the reality is that in America, not everywhere is Detroit or Baltimore. You guys are literally falling victim to fake news. The average small town will have a maximum of 1 or 2 murders per year. Cheyenne has only 60,000 people.

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago

This isn't true. Shootings are very, very rare. And they are concentrated in certain types of places (e.g., poor urban ghetto) such that the parts of the country that aren't these places have vanishingly small probabilities of being hurt by a shooting. Gun murders in the U.S. are a very low percentage of deaths (0.39%) and preventable deaths (~1.1%, there's some disagreement about what's "preventable"). That's 0.0036% of the population per year gun-murdered. That this statistic is 3x some other country's is irrelevant because 3x a small number is still a small number. If your goal is to prevent untimely deaths, focus on boring things like falls, car accidents, and diabetes.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>. And they are concentrated in certain types of places (e.g., poor urban ghetto) such that the parts of the country that aren't these places have vanishingly small probabilities of being hurt by a shooting. And even then they are basically concentrated around illegal parts of the economy. Drug traffickers, pimps, etc. can't use the courts and the police so when it comes to settling disputes they have to DIY their own threats of violence that other people usually outsource to the state.
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
  This is an interesting thought. Sounds correct to me. It seems like ending the War on Drugs would be a conceptually simple way of fixing most of this.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    It's a big factor; legalizing soft drugs and managing hard drugs (like methadone clinics) will definitely help. Social safety nets to help prevent people going poor. Quality education for everyone. Quality housing for everyone. There's a lot of things the US can do to massively improve the quality of life for everyone, it just means funneling some of the trillions it puts into the military and "the economy" (like the trillion that vaporized within minutes last march) elsewhere. I mean they can solve a lot of people's problems with a trillion dollars.