5 ms·

NKLA has nothing now, what we're left with is evidence of the new era of 'RobinHood' traders et. al. thinking they're on to something, or not realizing that it'

by jariel 6y ago

NKLA has nothing now, what we're left with is evidence of the new era of 'RobinHood' traders et. al. thinking they're on to something, or not realizing that it's really over, keeping some kind of valuation in place. We may be in a new era of equities, where the unfortunately under-informed masses are able to really move the needle on a lot of stocks, throwing all sorts of value-trading strategies out the window. In this kind of market, all you need is a Donald Trumpish like figure and nothing else to keep the fake-valuation going on forever. Honestly, if Trump were smart he should literally wrap up his businesses in some kind of non-transparent black box, IPO the meta entity right now and get his zillions of 'backers' to hype up is stock perpetually.

ProAm 6y ago
> In this kind of market, all you need is a Donald Trumpish like figure and nothing else to keep the fake-valuation going on forever. Or due diligence? This is GM's fault really not Nikola (the latter was simply selling snaked oil).
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  Absolutely. I talked to two former GM executives after the original Nikola deal was announced and they couldn't wrap their heads around why GM was involved with Nikola. Both came to the same conclusion, that GM was somehow wrapped up in the same hype that Nikola shareholders were, and I think the scaling back proves they were right.
vmception 6y ago
> We may be in a new era of equities, where the unfortunately under-informed masses are able to really move the needle on a lot of stocks, throwing all sorts of value-trading strategies out the window. nah, we just need valuations another order of magnitude higher in more companies. when the market is flooded with money the price of everything goes higher because there is nothing else to buy. that's literally what "inflation linked assets" means. Like most financial terms, it is a euphemism where the financial professional tries to keep a straight face for the longest time.
- pbrb 6y ago
  man, this is what i have been telling myself for the past 3 years. but, here we are, in a pandemic, hitting all time highs. i've decided i'm just going DCA my pile of cash into the market (was saving for real estate deals, but continually get outbid by all cash buyers or people doing reverse exchanges that NEED to close, with the tax savings offsetting the increased prices).
  - vmception 6y ago
    > but, here we are, in a pandemic, hitting all time highs. what were you telling yourself? Trillions of dollars have been added to the market because Congress told the Central bank and Treasury to do that, and other countries did the same thing too. An unlimited amount of money is being used to buy a fixed number of [eligible] assets, that is inflation.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
He tried that already. Literally, if you watch his interview about the DJT ticker, you see him praising everything and blaming others when it went bankrupt.
- jariel 6y ago
  That was before the RobinHood trading nation era of hyper speculative investors. Just like ~15% of the US population believes Trump when totally fabricates facts about the election, he could take a run at perennially duping investors in 2020 and beyond. "We're about to sign a huge deal for a Moscow property" ... and then it doesn't really happen. "We signed a huge deal with Macau developers" ... but it's not material to the company etc. etc.. There are a lot of people who command a lot of money that love to interact with, 'do deals with' important people, it elevates their status, much in the same way North Korea staged the US/N. Korean talks, ensuring the photo op had 'equal numbers of N. Korean flags to US flags' etc.. Even after all the loses and folly, people find the appearance of power irresistible - and no matter what happens to his business, DJT will forever be a 'Former President' which has formidable status. The developing worlds has vast sums of money controlled by unsavoury figures without a whole lot of oversight there are innumerable ways to 'pretend to do business' or to 'do it poorly enough' that he can bleed small time investors for a fortune. While 'Bloomberg' and every other bit of financial press literally spells out the disaster of the numbers, how none of it makes sense, he can literally tell his 'investors' that 'the media is out to get him and that they are lying' etc. etc..
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    That's normally when the SEC gets involved.
    - jariel 6y ago
      The SEC can't do anything if Trump says 'we signed huge deal' and did actually sign a deal of some kinds, there's plenty of room for hype that's not illegal.
    - wavefunction 6y ago
MattGaiser 6y ago
GM was also taken in. Either GM corporate is insanely inept or the scam was at least somewhat credible. I am not judging the retail investors too harshly on this as credible organizations gave it a thumbs up too.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  From GM's perspective they stood to lose nothing and potentially gain. It didn't matter if the guy was running a scam, might as well give him a shot in case he pulls it off since the buy in is so low (some tech they didn't care about). Oh "what about their reputation" you say? The only people who will know or care about this already have their driveways filled with Model 3s and 4runners and turn up their nose at GM. The real buyers don't care. The big banks, the suppliers, the big corporate entities GM has to deal with don't care either since this doesn't affect GM's perceived trustworthiness to d business with.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    But they still committed engineering and corporate resources, even if just to do planning and run estimates. I get that it is not a lot in the grand scheme of things for them, but it went quite far if the scam was so obvious. Or can I get a meeting with GM with an animator and mockups?
    - csours 6y ago
      > "Or can I get a meeting with GM with an animator and mockups?" Yes, that and a $34b market cap.
    - zaptheimpaler 6y ago
      Nikola is still worth $10B on the market, after today's crash. GM got an 11% stake. i.e they just made $1B, atleast. Probably much more. Yes that's worth a couple of pointless meetings and work for GM.
      - zwily 6y ago

by jariel 6y ago

ProAm 6y ago

> In this kind of market, all you need is a Donald Trumpish like figure and nothing else to keep the fake-valuation going on forever. Or due diligence? This is GM's fault really not Nikola (the latter was simply selling snaked oil).

bonestamp2 6y ago
Absolutely. I talked to two former GM executives after the original Nikola deal was announced and they couldn't wrap their heads around why GM was involved with Nikola. Both came to the same conclusion, that GM was somehow wrapped up in the same hype that Nikola shareholders were, and I think the scaling back proves they were right.

vmception 6y ago

> We may be in a new era of equities, where the unfortunately under-informed masses are able to really move the needle on a lot of stocks, throwing all sorts of value-trading strategies out the window. nah, we just need valuations another order of magnitude higher in more companies. when the market is flooded with money the price of everything goes higher because there is nothing else to buy. that's literally what "inflation linked assets" means. Like most financial terms, it is a euphemism where the financial professional tries to keep a straight face for the longest time.

pbrb 6y ago
man, this is what i have been telling myself for the past 3 years. but, here we are, in a pandemic, hitting all time highs. i've decided i'm just going DCA my pile of cash into the market (was saving for real estate deals, but continually get outbid by all cash buyers or people doing reverse exchanges that NEED to close, with the tax savings offsetting the increased prices).
- vmception 6y ago
  > but, here we are, in a pandemic, hitting all time highs. what were you telling yourself? Trillions of dollars have been added to the market because Congress told the Central bank and Treasury to do that, and other countries did the same thing too. An unlimited amount of money is being used to buy a fixed number of [eligible] assets, that is inflation.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

He tried that already. Literally, if you watch his interview about the DJT ticker, you see him praising everything and blaming others when it went bankrupt.

jariel 6y ago
That was before the RobinHood trading nation era of hyper speculative investors. Just like ~15% of the US population believes Trump when totally fabricates facts about the election, he could take a run at perennially duping investors in 2020 and beyond. "We're about to sign a huge deal for a Moscow property" ... and then it doesn't really happen. "We signed a huge deal with Macau developers" ... but it's not material to the company etc. etc.. There are a lot of people who command a lot of money that love to interact with, 'do deals with' important people, it elevates their status, much in the same way North Korea staged the US/N. Korean talks, ensuring the photo op had 'equal numbers of N. Korean flags to US flags' etc.. Even after all the loses and folly, people find the appearance of power irresistible - and no matter what happens to his business, DJT will forever be a 'Former President' which has formidable status. The developing worlds has vast sums of money controlled by unsavoury figures without a whole lot of oversight there are innumerable ways to 'pretend to do business' or to 'do it poorly enough' that he can bleed small time investors for a fortune. While 'Bloomberg' and every other bit of financial press literally spells out the disaster of the numbers, how none of it makes sense, he can literally tell his 'investors' that 'the media is out to get him and that they are lying' etc. etc..
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  That's normally when the SEC gets involved.
  - jariel 6y ago
    The SEC can't do anything if Trump says 'we signed huge deal' and did actually sign a deal of some kinds, there's plenty of room for hype that's not illegal.
  - wavefunction 6y ago

MattGaiser 6y ago

GM was also taken in. Either GM corporate is insanely inept or the scam was at least somewhat credible. I am not judging the retail investors too harshly on this as credible organizations gave it a thumbs up too.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
From GM's perspective they stood to lose nothing and potentially gain. It didn't matter if the guy was running a scam, might as well give him a shot in case he pulls it off since the buy in is so low (some tech they didn't care about). Oh "what about their reputation" you say? The only people who will know or care about this already have their driveways filled with Model 3s and 4runners and turn up their nose at GM. The real buyers don't care. The big banks, the suppliers, the big corporate entities GM has to deal with don't care either since this doesn't affect GM's perceived trustworthiness to d business with.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  But they still committed engineering and corporate resources, even if just to do planning and run estimates. I get that it is not a lot in the grand scheme of things for them, but it went quite far if the scam was so obvious. Or can I get a meeting with GM with an animator and mockups?
  - csours 6y ago
    > "Or can I get a meeting with GM with an animator and mockups?" Yes, that and a $34b market cap.
  - zaptheimpaler 6y ago
    Nikola is still worth $10B on the market, after today's crash. GM got an 11% stake. i.e they just made $1B, atleast. Probably much more. Yes that's worth a couple of pointless meetings and work for GM.
    - zwily 6y ago