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> But what about the Mac? The Mac is the PC from the company that more or less defined the Post-PC era. Would it not be the first to be sacrificed for the new f

> But what about the Mac? The Mac is the PC from the company that more or less defined the Post-PC era. Would it not be the first to be sacrificed for the new future? This to me is one of the really big but less talked-about implications of Apple Silicon. 12 months ago - before M1, before Big Sur, before the Mac Pro reboot, before the MBP 16 - the Mac had atrophied. Hardware quality had gone down, the software felt neglected (the UX update in Yosemite felt like a half-hearted skin). The Mac felt like a side-project. It felt unimportant to Apple; there was speculation that it might be turned into an iPad with a keyboard, or be dropped altogether with the all the new energy surrounding the iPad Pro. Apple seemed like it might just exit the workstation business completely. In the past year that trend has been turned on its head. First they fixed the keyboard and refreshed the MBP form-factor and internals. Then they came out with the radically-powerful (and expandable!) machine that pros had been asking for for years. Then, most importantly, they came out with a huge financial commitment to the future of the Mac, making it a seriously compelling workstation again, and the cherry on top is a new UX that, for the first time since OS X (nearly 20 years ago!), looks like it was designed cohesively from the ground-up. No matter how you feel about Big Sur's design choices, it shows that Apple cares about the Mac again. And they're just getting started with the new silicon. For an ecosystem that asks a lot in terms of commitment, it is hugely encouraging to see such an unambiguously renewed focus on this product line.

shmerl 6y ago
> Apple cares about the Mac again I don't think Apple cares about macOS users though. It's a huge difference. The way Apple drops support for existing things easily drives people away from them.
- cocoa19 6y ago
  I wish this was true, but everyday I see more dev shops moving from windows to mac than the opposite. I don't see as many moving to linux. Moving applications to the cloud and the slow deprecation of old windows apps made this possible.
  - shmerl 6y ago
    I've seen people dropping macOS and switching to Linux for a development computer. Can't really quantify that. But it's even more pronounced for gamers about whom Apple doesn't care at all. Linux is no doubt better for development than macOS, but for gaming it's glaringly better.
ForHackernews 6y ago
Counterpoint: Moving to ARM and custom silicon is a way to unify their iOS device line with their Mac lines. The Mac may not be an afterthought, but I suspect it will eventually become an "iPad XL" with a keyboard. The Mac will move further from being a general-purpose computing device and more toward being an appliance. I'm sure they'll still allow you to run XCode and Photoshop, but maybe not Wireshark or VPN software[0]? [0] https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/11/16/apple-apps-on-big-sur-bypass-firewalls-vpns-analysis-macos/ https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/11/16/apple-apps-on-big-...
- adrianN 6y ago
  VPNs are required for corporate use of the machines. That's a fairly big market, I doubt it will go away quickly.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    Substitute "VPN" with "any creative use of the hardware that requires low-level access to do something Apple might not endorse". But you're right, corporate VPNs will certainly still be allowed. Maybe you'll need to install it through the app store, and your company IT will have to submit their VPN configuration for Apple security review or something, but they won't block all VPNs.
  - oblio 6y ago
    They will provide a standard Apple VPN solution. Because they're big enough now and because they've started to be adopted by enterprises plus they don't care if the adoption is immediate, network device vendors will start following. Then once they're ready they'll pull the plug on third party VPN solutions.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      They already have VPN support built-in, you can add a VPN connection via the Network system preferences screen.
ksec 6y ago
>This to me is one of the really big but less talked-about implications of Apple Silicon Yes. Everyone is too busy hyping. No one is asking questions. ( Hype has die down a bit and we are now starting to see some quality information and discussions going [1] ) It was basically Apple admitting defeat. I mean even Steve Jobs didn't write off PC completely[1]. Or Intel is partly to blame because their roadmap were off by 4 years. The MacBook 12" in 2015 was designed with the hypothetical 10nm in mind. People keeps talking about Tablet taking over PC, Phone taking over Tablet etc. It really isn't the form factor. It is the default input devices, and how they are optimised for. The PC is strictly optimised for Keyboard and Mouse. And for lots of task, business conducting activities, Keyboard and Mouse remains the best option. Business are not switching to Tablet, or Tablet with Keyboard. In fact they are switching back to Keyboard and mouse for lots of the task they thought Tablet were better. In other sectors, AutoCAD CEO mentioned ( sorry cant find the video , it was about 2-3 years ago asked by Emily Chang on Bloomberg ) in certain fields ( I remember it was construction ) all of the their customers has literally moved to Tablet / iPad. So it really isn't a once size fits all solution. And the PC market is still growing. A very low single digit number, so 2020 will be an outliner. But it didn't slump to 150M or 100M unit a year as many predicted. Something somehow even Horace Dediu refuse to admit. And since the PC market ( WorldWide, so you could argue China and India or other countries are picking things up ) is not shrinking by any definition, there are still innovations to be made. Estimate of 1.5B of PC Worldwide ( You wont find an actual real number, since even Microsoft doesn't have clue and keep changing it ), 750M of those are business. Compared to ~110M Mac, there are plenty of space to grow. In 2015 I wrote about Mac should be at least 150M and really should be pushing for 200M by 2020 if they continue with momentum, which they didn't. Luckily Apple was only really competing with itself. The new Mac will have lots of user switching or coming back. There seems to be enough margin for an even cheaper MacBook Air at 11" or 12". Depending whether Apple follows the iPhone playbook where they have 16" and 14" for Pro, then the MacBook Air will be 14" and 12". That is going to be quite disruptive for a 12" MacBook Air at $799 and for Students $699. Having said all that, whether Apple remains committed to Mac in its ideal as a Personal Computer, or a lock down iPad Appliance remains to be seen. It seems Apple execs are unsure. I could only wish a Mac remains a Mac. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25257932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25257932 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJ3QxJYsw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJ3QxJYsw8
EricE 6y ago
Indeed - this is the first time in over 20 years I'm excited about new Mac hardware. I was all set to replace my 2015 MBA with an M1 MacBook Air. Then I started watching all the videos of people running games on the Air (Air!) - and even Windows games - many of which I play - under Crossover (commercial version of WINE from CodeWeavers - more than worth the $60 for the integration work they have done) I'm starting to realize that I may not care about keeping a Windows gaming machine any more. My only problem is I'm addicted to way to many assets in Cities:Skylines to get by with 16GB of RAM, so now I'm seriously thinking about waiting for round 2 for something that can get to at least 32GB of RAM. And by the time those machines are out I suspect a few of the games I care about that don't run on the M1 may have a solution of some sort. It's nuts, and not a path I thought I might go down - but the performance I'm seeing from non-native code already simply blows me away. It's only going to get better from here. This is the _ground floor_. I have to keep reminding myself that this is the start

shmerl 6y ago

> Apple cares about the Mac again I don't think Apple cares about macOS users though. It's a huge difference. The way Apple drops support for existing things easily drives people away from them.

cocoa19 6y ago
I wish this was true, but everyday I see more dev shops moving from windows to mac than the opposite. I don't see as many moving to linux. Moving applications to the cloud and the slow deprecation of old windows apps made this possible.
- shmerl 6y ago
  I've seen people dropping macOS and switching to Linux for a development computer. Can't really quantify that. But it's even more pronounced for gamers about whom Apple doesn't care at all. Linux is no doubt better for development than macOS, but for gaming it's glaringly better.

ForHackernews 6y ago

Counterpoint: Moving to ARM and custom silicon is a way to unify their iOS device line with their Mac lines. The Mac may not be an afterthought, but I suspect it will eventually become an "iPad XL" with a keyboard. The Mac will move further from being a general-purpose computing device and more toward being an appliance. I'm sure they'll still allow you to run XCode and Photoshop, but maybe not Wireshark or VPN software[0]? [0] https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/11/16/apple-apps-on-big-sur-bypass-firewalls-vpns-analysis-macos/ https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/11/16/apple-apps-on-big-...

adrianN 6y ago
VPNs are required for corporate use of the machines. That's a fairly big market, I doubt it will go away quickly.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  Substitute "VPN" with "any creative use of the hardware that requires low-level access to do something Apple might not endorse". But you're right, corporate VPNs will certainly still be allowed. Maybe you'll need to install it through the app store, and your company IT will have to submit their VPN configuration for Apple security review or something, but they won't block all VPNs.
- oblio 6y ago
  They will provide a standard Apple VPN solution. Because they're big enough now and because they've started to be adopted by enterprises plus they don't care if the adoption is immediate, network device vendors will start following. Then once they're ready they'll pull the plug on third party VPN solutions.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    They already have VPN support built-in, you can add a VPN connection via the Network system preferences screen.

ksec 6y ago

>This to me is one of the really big but less talked-about implications of Apple Silicon Yes. Everyone is too busy hyping. No one is asking questions. ( Hype has die down a bit and we are now starting to see some quality information and discussions going [1] ) It was basically Apple admitting defeat. I mean even Steve Jobs didn't write off PC completely[1]. Or Intel is partly to blame because their roadmap were off by 4 years. The MacBook 12" in 2015 was designed with the hypothetical 10nm in mind. People keeps talking about Tablet taking over PC, Phone taking over Tablet etc. It really isn't the form factor. It is the default input devices, and how they are optimised for. The PC is strictly optimised for Keyboard and Mouse. And for lots of task, business conducting activities, Keyboard and Mouse remains the best option. Business are not switching to Tablet, or Tablet with Keyboard. In fact they are switching back to Keyboard and mouse for lots of the task they thought Tablet were better. In other sectors, AutoCAD CEO mentioned ( sorry cant find the video , it was about 2-3 years ago asked by Emily Chang on Bloomberg ) in certain fields ( I remember it was construction ) all of the their customers has literally moved to Tablet / iPad. So it really isn't a once size fits all solution. And the PC market is still growing. A very low single digit number, so 2020 will be an outliner. But it didn't slump to 150M or 100M unit a year as many predicted. Something somehow even Horace Dediu refuse to admit. And since the PC market ( WorldWide, so you could argue China and India or other countries are picking things up ) is not shrinking by any definition, there are still innovations to be made. Estimate of 1.5B of PC Worldwide ( You wont find an actual real number, since even Microsoft doesn't have clue and keep changing it ), 750M of those are business. Compared to ~110M Mac, there are plenty of space to grow. In 2015 I wrote about Mac should be at least 150M and really should be pushing for 200M by 2020 if they continue with momentum, which they didn't. Luckily Apple was only really competing with itself. The new Mac will have lots of user switching or coming back. There seems to be enough margin for an even cheaper MacBook Air at 11" or 12". Depending whether Apple follows the iPhone playbook where they have 16" and 14" for Pro, then the MacBook Air will be 14" and 12". That is going to be quite disruptive for a 12" MacBook Air at $799 and for Students $699. Having said all that, whether Apple remains committed to Mac in its ideal as a Personal Computer, or a lock down iPad Appliance remains to be seen. It seems Apple execs are unsure. I could only wish a Mac remains a Mac. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25257932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25257932 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJ3QxJYsw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJ3QxJYsw8

EricE 6y ago

Indeed - this is the first time in over 20 years I'm excited about new Mac hardware. I was all set to replace my 2015 MBA with an M1 MacBook Air. Then I started watching all the videos of people running games on the Air (Air!) - and even Windows games - many of which I play - under Crossover (commercial version of WINE from CodeWeavers - more than worth the $60 for the integration work they have done) I'm starting to realize that I may not care about keeping a Windows gaming machine any more. My only problem is I'm addicted to way to many assets in Cities:Skylines to get by with 16GB of RAM, so now I'm seriously thinking about waiting for round 2 for something that can get to at least 32GB of RAM. And by the time those machines are out I suspect a few of the games I care about that don't run on the M1 may have a solution of some sort. It's nuts, and not a path I thought I might go down - but the performance I'm seeing from non-native code already simply blows me away. It's only going to get better from here. This is the _ground floor_. I have to keep reminding myself that this is the start