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Apple's (and everyone elses') anti-repair stance (both in terms of design and in policy) is harming the environment and generating tons of e-waste. Whats wrong

by ksk 6y ago

Apple's (and everyone elses') anti-repair stance (both in terms of design and in policy) is harming the environment and generating tons of e-waste. Whats wrong with expressing a view that helps the planet?

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Yet it’s Apple’s devices that last the longest and have the highest resale values.
- ksk 6y ago
  Hermes handbags also have high resale value. That tells us nothing. Apple's anti-repair approach absolutely harms the environment. Certainly they are not alone in this, many/most electronics these days are irreparable. But Apple is actively hostile to the repair industry, which makes them more deserving of criticism.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    Funny, the only refurbished computer, phone & tablet chain in NL has a pure Apple offering.
  - zepto 6y ago
    The repair industry in this case is hostile to the environment. They are incentivized to want computers to break so that they can sell repair services. It turns out that soldering parts in place makes them less likely to break than a socket whose connections can oxidize or come loose. The tiny number of devices that can’t be repaired because of soldered components, is dwarfed by the number of devices that never broke in the first place because of soldered components.
    - alacombe 6y ago
      > It turns out that soldering parts in place makes them less likely You've obvious never heard of MBP BGA chip solder ball cracking and rendering the whole device useless...
      - zepto 6y ago
        I didn’t say they never failed. Just that they fail less frequently. In any case, solder ball cracking results from process issues and is a solved problem: https://www.pcbcart.com/article/content/reasons-for-cracks-in-bga-soldering.html https://www.pcbcart.com/article/content/reasons-for-cracks-i... Certain not something that would be improved with sockets.
greyhair 6y ago
Apple's view uses less material over all. For the vast majority of the machines that A) don't fail and B) are never upgraded in any case, the Apple method of getting rid of sockets reduces the e-waste burden.
simonh 6y ago
Because it’s just virtue signalling, not actual environmentalism. What matters environmentally is aggregate device lifetime, so you get the most use out of the materials. Apple devices use a minimum of materials and have industry leading usable lifetimes. They are also designed to be highly recyclable. Greenpeace rated Apple the number 1 most environmentally friendly of the big technology companies. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-5-greenest-tech-companies-in-2019/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-5-greenest-tech-com...
- ksk 6y ago
  Promoting reuse and repair is environmentalism. Preventing repair (as Apple does) generates more e-waste. There really is no way around that fact. >What matters environmentally is aggregate device lifetime, so you get the most use out of the materials. Apple devices use a minimum of materials and have industry leading usable lifetimes. They are also designed to be highly recyclable. Reuse and repair is FAR superior to recycle - which actually wastes a lot of energy, in addition to generating e-waste for the parts which are not recycled. >Greenpeace rated Apple the number 1 most environmentally friendly of the big technology companies. What good does it do? They are still harming the environment.
  - simonh 6y ago
    For a manufacturer on the whole it’s a negligible issue. It’s simply a fact that Apple devices have longer average lifetimes and lower overall environmental impact than any of the other manufacturers. Hence the Greenpeace rating. If you actually care about the environment, as you claim, the choice is clear. What you are doing is picking a single marginal factor that can make a difference in rare cases, but is next to irrelevant in practice, and raising that above the total environmental impact of the whole range of devices. That’s just absurd.
    - alacombe 6y ago
      > It’s simply a fact that Apple devices have longer average lifetimes I've used the same desktop for the 8 to 6 years, upgrading with STANDARDIZED components over the years, and my laptop from that era still works. Heck, I've got a 18 years old thinpad still working fine. In the mean time, two MBP died on me. Try again...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by ksk 6y ago

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Yet it’s Apple’s devices that last the longest and have the highest resale values.

ksk 6y ago
Hermes handbags also have high resale value. That tells us nothing. Apple's anti-repair approach absolutely harms the environment. Certainly they are not alone in this, many/most electronics these days are irreparable. But Apple is actively hostile to the repair industry, which makes them more deserving of criticism.
- the-dude 6y ago
  Funny, the only refurbished computer, phone & tablet chain in NL has a pure Apple offering.
- zepto 6y ago
  The repair industry in this case is hostile to the environment. They are incentivized to want computers to break so that they can sell repair services. It turns out that soldering parts in place makes them less likely to break than a socket whose connections can oxidize or come loose. The tiny number of devices that can’t be repaired because of soldered components, is dwarfed by the number of devices that never broke in the first place because of soldered components.
  - alacombe 6y ago
    > It turns out that soldering parts in place makes them less likely You've obvious never heard of MBP BGA chip solder ball cracking and rendering the whole device useless...
    - zepto 6y ago
      I didn’t say they never failed. Just that they fail less frequently. In any case, solder ball cracking results from process issues and is a solved problem: https://www.pcbcart.com/article/content/reasons-for-cracks-in-bga-soldering.html https://www.pcbcart.com/article/content/reasons-for-cracks-i... Certain not something that would be improved with sockets.

greyhair 6y ago

Apple's view uses less material over all. For the vast majority of the machines that A) don't fail and B) are never upgraded in any case, the Apple method of getting rid of sockets reduces the e-waste burden.

simonh 6y ago

Because it’s just virtue signalling, not actual environmentalism. What matters environmentally is aggregate device lifetime, so you get the most use out of the materials. Apple devices use a minimum of materials and have industry leading usable lifetimes. They are also designed to be highly recyclable. Greenpeace rated Apple the number 1 most environmentally friendly of the big technology companies. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-5-greenest-tech-companies-in-2019/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-5-greenest-tech-com...

ksk 6y ago
Promoting reuse and repair is environmentalism. Preventing repair (as Apple does) generates more e-waste. There really is no way around that fact. >What matters environmentally is aggregate device lifetime, so you get the most use out of the materials. Apple devices use a minimum of materials and have industry leading usable lifetimes. They are also designed to be highly recyclable. Reuse and repair is FAR superior to recycle - which actually wastes a lot of energy, in addition to generating e-waste for the parts which are not recycled. >Greenpeace rated Apple the number 1 most environmentally friendly of the big technology companies. What good does it do? They are still harming the environment.
- simonh 6y ago
  For a manufacturer on the whole it’s a negligible issue. It’s simply a fact that Apple devices have longer average lifetimes and lower overall environmental impact than any of the other manufacturers. Hence the Greenpeace rating. If you actually care about the environment, as you claim, the choice is clear. What you are doing is picking a single marginal factor that can make a difference in rare cases, but is next to irrelevant in practice, and raising that above the total environmental impact of the whole range of devices. That’s just absurd.
  - alacombe 6y ago
    > It’s simply a fact that Apple devices have longer average lifetimes I've used the same desktop for the 8 to 6 years, upgrading with STANDARDIZED components over the years, and my laptop from that era still works. Heck, I've got a 18 years old thinpad still working fine. In the mean time, two MBP died on me. Try again...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]