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Well you’d expect the barrier to either be rigid enough to survive the impact (like a concrete barrier would) and have the cars safety features absorb the impac

Well you’d expect the barrier to either be rigid enough to survive the impact (like a concrete barrier would) and have the cars safety features absorb the impact, or to crumple in a way that absorbs the impact. To me it seems like the Armco is just a bad barrier for that part of the track, because when he hit it, his car penetrated between the horizontal parts of the barrier, but the chassis was torn in half when it encountered resistance from the upright support beam (which really should have given way as well). I don’t know if this Armco wasn’t up to spec, but the way this barrier performed, it made the crash as bad is it could possibly have been. Compare this crash to LeClerc binning it at a similar speed/angle into the tire barrier at Monza. https://youtu.be/K0WzAatudAo https://youtu.be/K0WzAatudAo It seems that literally any other sort of barrier would have performed better here, and since this is a fast part of the track, you’d typically expect this to be something that had already been considered.

justin66 6y ago
I don’t think there was anything defective with the Armco barrier. It just turned out to be the wrong thing for that part of the track. It seems to me that the concrete barrier they erected after cutting out the broken section wouldn’t be a great thing to drive into at 140mph, either. I’m curious to see if they have tires in place there next weekend. Incidentally, I’m pretty sure areas where the Armco rail can’t be replaced with something safer and more modern due to space constraints are the reason some classic tracks are not rated by the FIA as safe for F1. I think that’s part of the problem with Watkins Glen.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  I agree, I think tires or barrels would be a much better choice for that barrier. But I think the concrete is an improvement, because at that angle you’d expect it to deflect at least some of the force, but it’s pretty borderline. > Incidentally, I’m pretty sure areas where the Armco rail can’t be replaced with something safer and more modern due to space constraints are the reason some classic tracks are not rated by the FIA as safe for F1. A lot of classic tracks wouldn’t get grade 1 status if they were built today, some of them are just kept on the calendar because they’re too classic to remove. Monaco and Spa are two examples. I don’t think they’d drop Spa, and they’re certainly not going to drop Monaco, but those circuits are not up to modern safety standards.
  - justin66 6y ago
    I feel like keeping a classic, great track like Spa (and a classic, mediocre track like Monaco) in spite of the danger is a valid decision for the sport. I wish there was another F1 race on the calendar for North America, and as long as it wasn’t dangerous for the spectators, there’d be something to be said for using one of the old tracks.
    - AmericanChopper 6y ago
      I completely agree. This year has shown how good some of these classic circuits still are. Especially compared to some of the terrible modern circuits like Sochi or Yas Marina. I’m concerned that they’ll continue to drop old circuits in favour of new terrible ones that have some big financial backing. I could happily never watch another Abu Dhabi GP again, but I’d be very sad if they went ahead with the plans to drop Interlagos for the new tilkedrome they were planning to build.
      - justin66 6y ago
        The modern tracks (I guess they're mostly Tilke tracks?) vary in quality more than they should, but I am not opposed to building new tracks on principle. You named two boring, bad ones, but Circuit of the Americas is as good as anyone had any right to expect, given how high-profile and political the effort was. Marina Bay is so objectively awful that it has a certain charm. Baku is the greatest street circuit to come along in a long time (and I'm willing to argue about it :) ). Some of the classic American tracks would bring unique challenges to F1, and that would be interesting to see. I have to admit that some of my thinking in this area is a little sadistic... it would be entertaining to see F1 teams try to survive driving at Sebring. The Indycar teams practice there, and their cars can barely do it. In any case, another race in NA on the first half of the calendar, around the time of Montreal, would make a lot of sense. Last year the teams literally shipped everything from France to Quebec and, immediately after the race, shipped everything back from Quebec to France. Driving south a few hours to race in New York would make sense.
        6y ago

justin66 6y ago

I don’t think there was anything defective with the Armco barrier. It just turned out to be the wrong thing for that part of the track. It seems to me that the concrete barrier they erected after cutting out the broken section wouldn’t be a great thing to drive into at 140mph, either. I’m curious to see if they have tires in place there next weekend. Incidentally, I’m pretty sure areas where the Armco rail can’t be replaced with something safer and more modern due to space constraints are the reason some classic tracks are not rated by the FIA as safe for F1. I think that’s part of the problem with Watkins Glen.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
I agree, I think tires or barrels would be a much better choice for that barrier. But I think the concrete is an improvement, because at that angle you’d expect it to deflect at least some of the force, but it’s pretty borderline. > Incidentally, I’m pretty sure areas where the Armco rail can’t be replaced with something safer and more modern due to space constraints are the reason some classic tracks are not rated by the FIA as safe for F1. A lot of classic tracks wouldn’t get grade 1 status if they were built today, some of them are just kept on the calendar because they’re too classic to remove. Monaco and Spa are two examples. I don’t think they’d drop Spa, and they’re certainly not going to drop Monaco, but those circuits are not up to modern safety standards.
- justin66 6y ago
  I feel like keeping a classic, great track like Spa (and a classic, mediocre track like Monaco) in spite of the danger is a valid decision for the sport. I wish there was another F1 race on the calendar for North America, and as long as it wasn’t dangerous for the spectators, there’d be something to be said for using one of the old tracks.
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago
    I completely agree. This year has shown how good some of these classic circuits still are. Especially compared to some of the terrible modern circuits like Sochi or Yas Marina. I’m concerned that they’ll continue to drop old circuits in favour of new terrible ones that have some big financial backing. I could happily never watch another Abu Dhabi GP again, but I’d be very sad if they went ahead with the plans to drop Interlagos for the new tilkedrome they were planning to build.
    - justin66 6y ago
      The modern tracks (I guess they're mostly Tilke tracks?) vary in quality more than they should, but I am not opposed to building new tracks on principle. You named two boring, bad ones, but Circuit of the Americas is as good as anyone had any right to expect, given how high-profile and political the effort was. Marina Bay is so objectively awful that it has a certain charm. Baku is the greatest street circuit to come along in a long time (and I'm willing to argue about it :) ). Some of the classic American tracks would bring unique challenges to F1, and that would be interesting to see. I have to admit that some of my thinking in this area is a little sadistic... it would be entertaining to see F1 teams try to survive driving at Sebring. The Indycar teams practice there, and their cars can barely do it. In any case, another race in NA on the first half of the calendar, around the time of Montreal, would make a lot of sense. Last year the teams literally shipped everything from France to Quebec and, immediately after the race, shipped everything back from Quebec to France. Driving south a few hours to race in New York would make sense.
      - 6y ago