6 ms·

I have been taking care of my elderly mother, who would be vaguely defined as "not well" in the Southern sense of things, since my twenties. I did go into it w

I have been taking care of my elderly mother, who would be vaguely defined as "not well" in the Southern sense of things, since my twenties. I did go into it with my eyes open, knowing the kinds of tradeoffs I was making. I could live alone, but this was a choice I made to help her. However, I was unprepared in the extreme for the ambient hostility toward men who live with their mothers, no matter the reason. I do not attempt to date or anything near it (I have additional factors that would make dating ... unlikely ... already, and living with your mom is just gravy on top), nor do I "hit on" women, but there was a (to me) startling rate of women who, upon finding out my situation, make it abundantly clear that they would not date me, despite me not asking. I refer to this as "pre-jection." I wonder if this sort of thing will continue, now that it is happening to a significantly larger segment of the population.

Allenaz 6y ago
I would say that you got unlucky so far, everybody struggles with something at some point in time, the kind of people worth keeping near know and respect that.
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  After multiple decades without so much as a kiss, I think "luck" as a factor can be moved to the bottom of the list of explanations. Like I said, I went into it with my eyes open. I didn't expect anyone to give me a cookie or anything. It's just that the generalized hostility was unexpected.
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    I agree with you. In my experience, there is an infinitesimally small number of people interested in what I would consider healthy, kind, honest, fair relationships. (Or at least, an infinitesimally small number that are not already in a long term healthy relationship. It may be that we've just missed the opportunity to meet the high quality people in our earlier years.) I've had my share of relationships, and still date from time to time, but usually I find the experience disappointing.
  - danlugo92 6y ago
    > After multiple decades without so much as a kiss, The answers you seek you will not find in Hacker News, I will not link to anything I do hope you encounter the solutions to your problems, as I did once myself after struggling with dating, some time ago.
stronglikedan 6y ago
> startling rate of women Most people suck. The silver lining is that you have a great bar for measuring them up against, to find the few that don't, should you decide to get back into the dating game. I'd work that fact in towards the end of a first meetup, since it would save both time and money.
xlm1717 6y ago
I am a man living with my mother. My mother is relatively healthy, she can work, but she cannot afford to live on her own (even before the pandemic), so she lives with me and I pay the rent, and it has been this way for me since my twenties too. I am always extremely hesitant to tell anyone I am living with my mother, and yeah, it puts a freeze on dating to the point that I don't even attempt to date anymore either. At least being men our dating prospects can actually improve the older we get, and for me I'll be pretty well off financially when I do live on my own, but that's small comfort in the present...
throwitaway4421 6y ago
> upon finding out my situation, make it abundantly clear that they would not date me, despite me not asking. I refer to this as "pre-jection." That sounds awful. How exactly do they go about this?
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  Just as an example: one gal asked about my living situation, with regards to roommates. I was forthright about it, gave a little "what can you do?" shrug. I was a little startled as her vocal tone immediately changed to a mocking one as she delivered a "Awww, widdle at_a_remove wivves with his Mooo-mmy!" and then sneered. (Note that this person would describe herself as kind, liberal, thoughtful, and so on) Similarly, if less vituperatively, some simply announce "I could never date a guy who lives with his mother!" immediately after, although I had not offered a date. It is sometimes a struggle to be pleasant in these situations. I sometimes do want to ask if they would like to be abandoned by their children if they were older and fell upon hard times, but I restrain myself.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Egalitarianism fur alles. If they've made it such an impolite comment, then clearly you've both disqualified each other, so you can be snarky about it too.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    It's a quality litmus test for partner material. I steered clear of anyone who took issue with me having to provide a material amount of care for a parent (and that parent living with me) before they passed. Someone who belittles you for being a compassionate human being has no place in your present, nor your future (imho). As @stronglikedan says in a comment in this thread, "most people suck." It's a bit broad, but it ain't wrong.
    - at_a_remove 6y ago
      If I were in a stronger position with regards to dating, I could certainly see that. However, I have descended past "beggars can't be choosers" into the benthic depths of "even if I didn't have this working against me ..." Right now it is merely a sad observation from the permanently sidelined.
alexanderthe- 6y ago
I also live with family. There are many cultures where living with your family is the norm until, or even after marriage. Maybe I’m an outlier, or just got lucky, but the first woman I started dating after a failed 5 year relationship ended up being conditionally ok with it - the conditions being that living in my family’s home wasn’t my “end game”, and that I was able to take care of myself. This was coming from an extremely independent woman who lived on her own, in a country outside of where she was born since coming to the US for college. Since then, she’s come to understand that living with, and helping to take care of family shows a degree of maturity and responsibility that transcends merely taking care of n=1 (yourself). If anyone is in a similar situation, don’t be afraid to enter the dating pool just because you live with family, don’t be ashamed of it, and respect the ignorance of those who haven’t had the burden of having to support loved ones on their shoulders. *edit (typo) Also, by “end game”, she meant that I was planning on moving out at some point, which I am.
mgh2 6y ago
Is this stigma due to the tenet of "extreme independence and freedom" from the West? In most Asian countries, taking care of your parents is a filial obligation/responsibility deeply engrained in culture: an expectation for being a good child. It is starting to change now due to Western influence and affluence though...but it is still traditionally the norm to take care of your parents. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389642/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389642/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6403016/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6403016/
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  For those Westerners dating Asians born in Asia, it's important to be aware of this difference in independence. For Mainland China children, it is expected (ie. mandatory) that their parents will move in with them sometime after marriage. The inlaw is not thought of as a person, but as the parents' pension plan. So if you marry into a family like that, it's important you know the story beforehand. (There's an old Chinese riddle about "Who would you save if your mother and wife fell in the river?" The only acceptable answer is "mother.") For Filipinos, basically the same thing, except there was no "one child" policy as in China. However, their family is much more important than some outsider like you, so again, it's something you want to discuss and think about before getting involved.
iJohnDoe 6y ago
For what it’s worth, from my experience, it’s a bad sign when a woman still lives with their parents (mom). The negative stigma should go both ways. When a woman lives with their parents it can be a sign of a few things, such as self entitlement, failure to launch, and parents that still have control over her. These will make for a rough relationship with a woman in this situation. These could be taken as generalizations, but like I said, the negative stigma needs to go both ways.
ryan-allen 6y ago
> I have been taking care of my elderly mother It's unfair that this is stigmatised, I think it's a good and noble thing to look after elderly parents. It's not so common in the west, but it's very common in other cultures, I think we get that part wrong in western society. I couldn't bear the fact that my mother was in a nursing home. If she ever needs care I wont be sending her to something like that, I'll do what you're doing.
isabelc 6y ago
>However, I was unprepared in the extreme for the ambient hostility toward men who live with their mothers, no matter the reason. My mother taught me young, "Watch how a guy treats his mother because that's how he'll treat his future wife." I've observed it to be true, as a grown woman. There is hope for those like you because there must be others who know this pearl of wisdom.
sv1123 6y ago
I am not meaning to brag at all, but I am a woman considered highly attractive by a lot and I get asked out quite frequently by attractive men. The only reason I mention that is because I recently started dating a man (not exclusively yet) who has just moved in with his Mom to save money and buy a home. I live with my Mom, who has Parkinson's, to help her. I do not judge him remotely and find him incredibly attractive regardless. The only person who is ashamed is him! The logistics are the only issue, but we make enough that I don't mind renting out AirBnBs etc... He is being financially responsible, and I am taking care of the woman who sacrificed her life for me to achieve my dreams and is now unwell. Be proud, and screw those women with double standards who fail to look a little deeper. It's sexism. A lot of women unfortunately hold this stigma, but there are women like us out there who don't. Keep looking.

Allenaz 6y ago

I would say that you got unlucky so far, everybody struggles with something at some point in time, the kind of people worth keeping near know and respect that.

at_a_remove 6y ago
After multiple decades without so much as a kiss, I think "luck" as a factor can be moved to the bottom of the list of explanations. Like I said, I went into it with my eyes open. I didn't expect anyone to give me a cookie or anything. It's just that the generalized hostility was unexpected.
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  I agree with you. In my experience, there is an infinitesimally small number of people interested in what I would consider healthy, kind, honest, fair relationships. (Or at least, an infinitesimally small number that are not already in a long term healthy relationship. It may be that we've just missed the opportunity to meet the high quality people in our earlier years.) I've had my share of relationships, and still date from time to time, but usually I find the experience disappointing.
- danlugo92 6y ago
  > After multiple decades without so much as a kiss, The answers you seek you will not find in Hacker News, I will not link to anything I do hope you encounter the solutions to your problems, as I did once myself after struggling with dating, some time ago.

stronglikedan 6y ago

> startling rate of women Most people suck. The silver lining is that you have a great bar for measuring them up against, to find the few that don't, should you decide to get back into the dating game. I'd work that fact in towards the end of a first meetup, since it would save both time and money.

xlm1717 6y ago

I am a man living with my mother. My mother is relatively healthy, she can work, but she cannot afford to live on her own (even before the pandemic), so she lives with me and I pay the rent, and it has been this way for me since my twenties too. I am always extremely hesitant to tell anyone I am living with my mother, and yeah, it puts a freeze on dating to the point that I don't even attempt to date anymore either. At least being men our dating prospects can actually improve the older we get, and for me I'll be pretty well off financially when I do live on my own, but that's small comfort in the present...

throwitaway4421 6y ago

> upon finding out my situation, make it abundantly clear that they would not date me, despite me not asking. I refer to this as "pre-jection." That sounds awful. How exactly do they go about this?

at_a_remove 6y ago
Just as an example: one gal asked about my living situation, with regards to roommates. I was forthright about it, gave a little "what can you do?" shrug. I was a little startled as her vocal tone immediately changed to a mocking one as she delivered a "Awww, widdle at_a_remove wivves with his Mooo-mmy!" and then sneered. (Note that this person would describe herself as kind, liberal, thoughtful, and so on) Similarly, if less vituperatively, some simply announce "I could never date a guy who lives with his mother!" immediately after, although I had not offered a date. It is sometimes a struggle to be pleasant in these situations. I sometimes do want to ask if they would like to be abandoned by their children if they were older and fell upon hard times, but I restrain myself.
- fakedang 6y ago
  Egalitarianism fur alles. If they've made it such an impolite comment, then clearly you've both disqualified each other, so you can be snarky about it too.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  It's a quality litmus test for partner material. I steered clear of anyone who took issue with me having to provide a material amount of care for a parent (and that parent living with me) before they passed. Someone who belittles you for being a compassionate human being has no place in your present, nor your future (imho). As @stronglikedan says in a comment in this thread, "most people suck." It's a bit broad, but it ain't wrong.
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    If I were in a stronger position with regards to dating, I could certainly see that. However, I have descended past "beggars can't be choosers" into the benthic depths of "even if I didn't have this working against me ..." Right now it is merely a sad observation from the permanently sidelined.

alexanderthe- 6y ago

I also live with family. There are many cultures where living with your family is the norm until, or even after marriage. Maybe I’m an outlier, or just got lucky, but the first woman I started dating after a failed 5 year relationship ended up being conditionally ok with it - the conditions being that living in my family’s home wasn’t my “end game”, and that I was able to take care of myself. This was coming from an extremely independent woman who lived on her own, in a country outside of where she was born since coming to the US for college. Since then, she’s come to understand that living with, and helping to take care of family shows a degree of maturity and responsibility that transcends merely taking care of n=1 (yourself). If anyone is in a similar situation, don’t be afraid to enter the dating pool just because you live with family, don’t be ashamed of it, and respect the ignorance of those who haven’t had the burden of having to support loved ones on their shoulders. *edit (typo) Also, by “end game”, she meant that I was planning on moving out at some point, which I am.

mgh2 6y ago

Is this stigma due to the tenet of "extreme independence and freedom" from the West? In most Asian countries, taking care of your parents is a filial obligation/responsibility deeply engrained in culture: an expectation for being a good child. It is starting to change now due to Western influence and affluence though...but it is still traditionally the norm to take care of your parents. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389642/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389642/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6403016/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6403016/

redis_mlc 6y ago
For those Westerners dating Asians born in Asia, it's important to be aware of this difference in independence. For Mainland China children, it is expected (ie. mandatory) that their parents will move in with them sometime after marriage. The inlaw is not thought of as a person, but as the parents' pension plan. So if you marry into a family like that, it's important you know the story beforehand. (There's an old Chinese riddle about "Who would you save if your mother and wife fell in the river?" The only acceptable answer is "mother.") For Filipinos, basically the same thing, except there was no "one child" policy as in China. However, their family is much more important than some outsider like you, so again, it's something you want to discuss and think about before getting involved.

iJohnDoe 6y ago

For what it’s worth, from my experience, it’s a bad sign when a woman still lives with their parents (mom). The negative stigma should go both ways. When a woman lives with their parents it can be a sign of a few things, such as self entitlement, failure to launch, and parents that still have control over her. These will make for a rough relationship with a woman in this situation. These could be taken as generalizations, but like I said, the negative stigma needs to go both ways.

ryan-allen 6y ago

> I have been taking care of my elderly mother It's unfair that this is stigmatised, I think it's a good and noble thing to look after elderly parents. It's not so common in the west, but it's very common in other cultures, I think we get that part wrong in western society. I couldn't bear the fact that my mother was in a nursing home. If she ever needs care I wont be sending her to something like that, I'll do what you're doing.

isabelc 6y ago

>However, I was unprepared in the extreme for the ambient hostility toward men who live with their mothers, no matter the reason. My mother taught me young, "Watch how a guy treats his mother because that's how he'll treat his future wife." I've observed it to be true, as a grown woman. There is hope for those like you because there must be others who know this pearl of wisdom.

sv1123 6y ago

I am not meaning to brag at all, but I am a woman considered highly attractive by a lot and I get asked out quite frequently by attractive men. The only reason I mention that is because I recently started dating a man (not exclusively yet) who has just moved in with his Mom to save money and buy a home. I live with my Mom, who has Parkinson's, to help her. I do not judge him remotely and find him incredibly attractive regardless. The only person who is ashamed is him! The logistics are the only issue, but we make enough that I don't mind renting out AirBnBs etc... He is being financially responsible, and I am taking care of the woman who sacrificed her life for me to achieve my dreams and is now unwell. Be proud, and screw those women with double standards who fail to look a little deeper. It's sexism. A lot of women unfortunately hold this stigma, but there are women like us out there who don't. Keep looking.