4 ms·

I spent nearly every other week in SF from 2011 until COVID hit in February. Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city

I spent nearly every other week in SF from 2011 until COVID hit in February. Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN'.

selectodude 6y ago
>Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN' Heh, and here I am in Chicago thinking "holy shit this city is filthy!" when I go to New York. I haven't been to San Francisco in awhile, it must have deteriorated.
- pengaru 6y ago
  The harsh winters alone send Chicago's homeless places like SF. The city's municipal workers used to wash down the surviving homeless encampments hiding from the cold on Lower Wacker with bleach and a fire hose without notice. You could differentiate Chicago's genuine homeless from the career panhandlers downtown by the bleach-stained clothes. Not sure if they still use this practice, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's easy to criticize SF for its negligence, but the homeless challenges are real and the affordable solutions tend to be severely lacking empathy. And SF lacks a rude force of nature doing most of the work every winter. Damp and chilly, sure, but still relatively comfortable. Chicago has it easy in this department, and its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either.
  - x87678r 6y ago
    No its politics. NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253 https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253
    - pengaru 6y ago
      > NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. Are you implying that's the right thing to do to someone living on the streets with nothing more than a tent for shelter?
      - x87678r 6y ago
        Yes its better for the rest of the people who live there and probably better for the homeless guy too.
  - adkadskhj 6y ago
    > its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either. It's .. interesting, since i generally have no clue what to do here. I'm a super .. socialist _(or w/e)_ in that i believe in tons of government programs, but homelessness is something i almost don't believe in. It feels either a problem of: 1. Social safety nets to support working individuals experiencing tough times (i support tons of safety programs). 2. Or.. more controversially, mental health issues that shouldn't be allowed to exist in this state. Ie, if we had #1 then "no one" would be homeless - and those that are despite that, are too mentally unwell to be allowed the freedom to make such a decision. Though, i know nothing on the subject - and advertise as much. Nevertheless, i feel far less supportive of the homeless as a result - i split it mentally as either people i want to support via social nets - or mentally unwell people needing of hospitalization. A bit off topic perhaps, but i'm always interested in peoples opinion on the subject.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      I've been following the SF homeless situation pretty closely. The numbers are that of the $300-350 million/year SF budget for homeless, 60% goes to permanent rent subsidies (low-income long-term residents.) That leaves $120-140 million/year for actual street homeless of the reported 5,000 people. $30 million/year is given out as $500/month vouchers, leaving $90 million-$110 million unaccounted for (ie. likely social workers and bureaucrats.) Other cities have reported: - 100% of street homeless are on substances - 50% of street homeless are mentally ill That means 50% could still be treated/rehabilitated/re-employed with inexpensive programs (mailing address, internet access, showers, transitional housing.) SF has a couple problems though: - homeless migrate here, so it's really a federal problem - SF rents are so high that there will be a surging tide of homeless from the city residents post-2020. The lower-middle class individuals really need to emigrate in an orderly fashion beforehand.
      - pengaru 6y ago
        FYI you're shadow banned, basically all your comments are currently defaulting to [dead] and you're talking to yourself and HNers like me with showdead=yes. The comments stay that way until someone like me comes along, reads your invisible text, and vouches for it - which I've done in this case. You must have angered the mods.

I spent nearly every other week in SF from 2011 until COVID hit in February. Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN'.

selectodude 6y ago

>Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN' Heh, and here I am in Chicago thinking "holy shit this city is filthy!" when I go to New York. I haven't been to San Francisco in awhile, it must have deteriorated.

pengaru 6y ago
The harsh winters alone send Chicago's homeless places like SF. The city's municipal workers used to wash down the surviving homeless encampments hiding from the cold on Lower Wacker with bleach and a fire hose without notice. You could differentiate Chicago's genuine homeless from the career panhandlers downtown by the bleach-stained clothes. Not sure if they still use this practice, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's easy to criticize SF for its negligence, but the homeless challenges are real and the affordable solutions tend to be severely lacking empathy. And SF lacks a rude force of nature doing most of the work every winter. Damp and chilly, sure, but still relatively comfortable. Chicago has it easy in this department, and its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either.
- x87678r 6y ago
  No its politics. NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253 https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253
  - pengaru 6y ago
    > NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. Are you implying that's the right thing to do to someone living on the streets with nothing more than a tent for shelter?
    - x87678r 6y ago
      Yes its better for the rest of the people who live there and probably better for the homeless guy too.
- adkadskhj 6y ago
  > its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either. It's .. interesting, since i generally have no clue what to do here. I'm a super .. socialist _(or w/e)_ in that i believe in tons of government programs, but homelessness is something i almost don't believe in. It feels either a problem of: 1. Social safety nets to support working individuals experiencing tough times (i support tons of safety programs). 2. Or.. more controversially, mental health issues that shouldn't be allowed to exist in this state. Ie, if we had #1 then "no one" would be homeless - and those that are despite that, are too mentally unwell to be allowed the freedom to make such a decision. Though, i know nothing on the subject - and advertise as much. Nevertheless, i feel far less supportive of the homeless as a result - i split it mentally as either people i want to support via social nets - or mentally unwell people needing of hospitalization. A bit off topic perhaps, but i'm always interested in peoples opinion on the subject.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    I've been following the SF homeless situation pretty closely. The numbers are that of the $300-350 million/year SF budget for homeless, 60% goes to permanent rent subsidies (low-income long-term residents.) That leaves $120-140 million/year for actual street homeless of the reported 5,000 people. $30 million/year is given out as $500/month vouchers, leaving $90 million-$110 million unaccounted for (ie. likely social workers and bureaucrats.) Other cities have reported: - 100% of street homeless are on substances - 50% of street homeless are mentally ill That means 50% could still be treated/rehabilitated/re-employed with inexpensive programs (mailing address, internet access, showers, transitional housing.) SF has a couple problems though: - homeless migrate here, so it's really a federal problem - SF rents are so high that there will be a surging tide of homeless from the city residents post-2020. The lower-middle class individuals really need to emigrate in an orderly fashion beforehand.
    - pengaru 6y ago
      FYI you're shadow banned, basically all your comments are currently defaulting to [dead] and you're talking to yourself and HNers like me with showdead=yes. The comments stay that way until someone like me comes along, reads your invisible text, and vouches for it - which I've done in this case. You must have angered the mods.