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The problem isn't how it was handled ex-post. The problem is how there was essentially zero infrastructure or preparation in place for this type of fast-disburs

The problem isn't how it was handled ex-post. The problem is how there was essentially zero infrastructure or preparation in place for this type of fast-disbursement of stimulus. Surely it couldn't haven been inconceivable to imagine that Congress may want to send widespread stimulus to most everyone with a week or two or turnaround. The 2008 financial crisis was barely more than a decade ago. How hard could it possibly be, in 2020, to setup a secure, cross-verified, system for taxpayers to update their information online? Defending the incompetence of the Treasury Department, is like defending a cook who burns down the kitchen because he never inspected his fire extinguishers. "What did you expect the guy to do? He had to move fast!"

Jtsummers 6y ago
Whether Congress could want to do something or not is irrelevant to the civil servant. Unless they're directed to make those preparations (and not just plans for the event, but actually start implementing which costs a lot more), they won't. The distinction I'm making: A plan may take 1-4 weeks to form with 1-10 participants. They could tell you exactly what's needed in order to implement a stimulus check program like this safely and accurately. But the implementation is going to take weeks or months more work and 10-1000 participants to effect it. The planning is "cheap" and done as a matter of course. That covers things like disaster recover and conops. But it doesn't, on its own, actually create a final "product". Only the plan for what to do when an emergency or directive comes down the pipe. The implementation is expensive. And they need authority to execute it. If they're not funded for it, they aren't going to do it.
ericmay 6y ago
> How hard could it possibly be, in 2020, to setup a secure, cross-verified, system for taxpayers to update their information online? Pretty difficult. People don't want to update, don't have access to computers, some are here living and working and aren't citizens or are undocumented, some people don't trust the government or don't want the government tracking them anymore than they already do. You name it. Even if you didn't have these systematic issues, it's a political football. Can't ask the wrong questions on the census b/c politics, for example. How would you even know that every American eligible got a check if you can't even get a count of every American?
SilasX 6y ago
>The problem isn't how it was handled ex-post. The problem is how there was essentially zero infrastructure or preparation in place for this type of fast-disbursement of stimulus. Isn't there? The Fed (and monetary economists) always talk about how much easier it would be to stimulate with a "helicopter drop"[0], wouldn't they already know how to pull that off? Even if it were done by Congress rather than the Fed, the Fed's process could still be the delivery mechanism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money
Retric 6y ago
If you want the government to be capable of something you need to spend money on that capacity. Having efficient systems in place come with a real cost, so simply saying their less than perfect isn’t enough you need to justify the waste vs what it would have taken to avoid it.
eli 6y ago
If your point is that Congress should allocate additional funds to the IRS to improve their infrastructure, I couldn't agree more.
hindsightbias 6y ago
Decades back, Congress starved the IRS of infrastructure funds as a means of kneecapping it. Innovative programs (IRS-CAWR, etc) were prototyped, hugely successful (first year brought in several $100M for one service center), but then nationwide rollout was dragged out for years for lack of HW. I doubt much has changed and things are cobbled together. Like all large legacy environments, reimagining is costly, complex and prone to high failure rates. They should never move off the mainframe.

Jtsummers 6y ago

Whether Congress could want to do something or not is irrelevant to the civil servant. Unless they're directed to make those preparations (and not just plans for the event, but actually start implementing which costs a lot more), they won't. The distinction I'm making: A plan may take 1-4 weeks to form with 1-10 participants. They could tell you exactly what's needed in order to implement a stimulus check program like this safely and accurately. But the implementation is going to take weeks or months more work and 10-1000 participants to effect it. The planning is "cheap" and done as a matter of course. That covers things like disaster recover and conops. But it doesn't, on its own, actually create a final "product". Only the plan for what to do when an emergency or directive comes down the pipe. The implementation is expensive. And they need authority to execute it. If they're not funded for it, they aren't going to do it.

ericmay 6y ago

> How hard could it possibly be, in 2020, to setup a secure, cross-verified, system for taxpayers to update their information online? Pretty difficult. People don't want to update, don't have access to computers, some are here living and working and aren't citizens or are undocumented, some people don't trust the government or don't want the government tracking them anymore than they already do. You name it. Even if you didn't have these systematic issues, it's a political football. Can't ask the wrong questions on the census b/c politics, for example. How would you even know that every American eligible got a check if you can't even get a count of every American?

SilasX 6y ago

>The problem isn't how it was handled ex-post. The problem is how there was essentially zero infrastructure or preparation in place for this type of fast-disbursement of stimulus. Isn't there? The Fed (and monetary economists) always talk about how much easier it would be to stimulate with a "helicopter drop"[0], wouldn't they already know how to pull that off? Even if it were done by Congress rather than the Fed, the Fed's process could still be the delivery mechanism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money

Retric 6y ago

If you want the government to be capable of something you need to spend money on that capacity. Having efficient systems in place come with a real cost, so simply saying their less than perfect isn’t enough you need to justify the waste vs what it would have taken to avoid it.

eli 6y ago

If your point is that Congress should allocate additional funds to the IRS to improve their infrastructure, I couldn't agree more.

hindsightbias 6y ago

Decades back, Congress starved the IRS of infrastructure funds as a means of kneecapping it. Innovative programs (IRS-CAWR, etc) were prototyped, hugely successful (first year brought in several $100M for one service center), but then nationwide rollout was dragged out for years for lack of HW. I doubt much has changed and things are cobbled together. Like all large legacy environments, reimagining is costly, complex and prone to high failure rates. They should never move off the mainframe.