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> I put up with increasing crime, dangerous grime (such as needles in bike lanes) and tent cities on sidewalks all over the place for a decade until my brain co

> I put up with increasing crime, dangerous grime (such as needles in bike lanes) and tent cities on sidewalks all over the place for a decade until my brain couldn't take it anymore. But this is exactly a consequence of catering to wealthy tech: infrastructure is left to collapse while development focuses on the wealthy. Rather than addressing transportation issues, tech just built their own exclusive network. Rather than addressing cost-of-living inequity, tech just drove up real-estate prices. It sounds to me what you really want is for someone to alleviate your discomfort by shoveling off the riff-raff so that you can enjoy your bike ride, rather than having to address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth.

KittenInABox 6y ago
Another issue I suggest is also that systemic issues are harder to solve- I don't live in SF but I understand there is corruption, NIMBYism, and waste that takes the considerable budget SF has and doesn't actually improve lives for the neediest who live there. Tech people haven't in general been highly politically involved, but political involvement- real political involvement, the kind that go to town halls as well as protests, the kind that build communities, etc. has been dying nationwide. The whole infrastructure of holding politicians accountable is rotting out from the country.
cynicalkane 6y ago
It's your claim that it's "tech"'s job to solve these issues, rather than the city government, the people whose actual job it is to solve these issues? Flush with extra cash from the taxes paid by "tech", to boot. Like, what do you want here? Should "tech" appropriate a significant part of the government's job in addressing these issues? I'm sure you don't actually want that.
- bird_monster 6y ago
  I agree with you, but I am also a person that just wants someone to do it. Anyone at all, really. City governments are failing fantastically in major tech hubs, I kind of just think fuck it. Let some chowderhead tech goon take a shot at solving housing/homelessness/whatever. Nobody else is going to.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - justin_oaks 6y ago
    That's if you can get the government out of the way. The problem isn't just that the government is doing nothing; it's that they actually block progress.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
lhorie 6y ago
> Rather than addressing transportation issues, tech just built their own exclusive network. Rather than addressing cost-of-living inequity, tech just drove up real-estate prices. This feels like misplaced blame? Is one expected to believe that "tech" should be doing the government's job? If anything, one could argue that tech did do its part by paying higher taxes on average </two-cents>
davorak 6y ago
> It sounds to me what you really want is for someone to alleviate your discomfort by shoveling off the riff-raff so that you can enjoy your bike ride, rather than having to address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth. I am not seeing anything in the grandparent that suggests they are not willing to pay for cleaner streets and better housing and homeless services through taxes to a well managed city.
- vecinu 6y ago
  You are correct, I am actually asking to pay more taxes if some of these problems could be solved. What good is having a lot of money if you're surrounded by problems and are unhappy? I would gladly spent it to make my community more egalitarian.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    The problem is that in reality, paying more taxes just creates more problems.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    I doubt more taxes would help. If you're in California and San Francisco, your taxes are already higher than they would be in most other places in the USA. Before I'd agree to paying even more, I'd want to know what exactly my existing taxes are paying for, and why those things are more important than cleaning up literal shit from the sidewalks.
jeffbee 6y ago
Development always focuses on the top of the market and there is nothing wrong with that. New houses are better and cost more. Their creation depresses the price of older houses. It is exactly analogous to the car market. You can't lower the price of used cars by outlawing new cars.
mikestew 6y ago
It sounds like to me that you're saying that the city and surrounding governments couldn't handle the new, unruly kid on the block that is "tech", so the kid gets blamed for having bad parents? "Tech" drove up real estate prices? That's a second order effect at best. address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth That's a hell of an unsupported stretch. But it is typical of the mindset: "rich people just want to stay rich, that's all want, net worth, blah, blah, blah." Look, there have to plenty of tech people like me that wonder why I'm not being taxed more to address these issues. I've got money to burn, take some of it, Local Government. (Uh, oh, here comes the jackass to suggest I voluntarily write a check to the government coffers; thanks, that was helpful.) Park some of those assumptions about people that fell into money, and maybe some solutions can be implemented together. Otherwise the alternative is to listen to the sound of our own voices.
threatofrain 6y ago
These issues are all political issues, so I'm not sure what people expect the tech minority to do ― become even more politically powerful, and even more influential in matters of civic life? Furthermore, the wealth of tech is completely different from the voting base of tech. This is a democratic city situated in a democratic state in a democratic country. So, like, either the people on any level want to do something or... do they want the Andrew Carnegie of tech to punch through the "red tape"? What is the city/state/federal political mood on matters of big homeless, housing, or infrastructure projects? Isn't it depressed or pessimistic?
vecinu 6y ago
> It sounds to me what you really want is for someone to alleviate your discomfort by shoveling off the riff-raff so that you can enjoy your bike ride, rather than having to address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth. I would take issue with this assumption as I had moved from a pretty socialist country to SF, where I paid much higher taxes and didn't complain. Nay, I celebrated the taxes I paid because I saw where they went all around me. Fantastic infrastructure (SF roadways are littered with potholes and terrible quality), affordable housing and supported citizens. We have a very tech heavy scene in the city I moved from where people earn 6 figures, with a much higher population and the situation on the ground was nowhere near what it was in SF. I also take issue with your last statement because it implies I want "the poors" removed purely for my own enjoyment. I do not, I realize the suffering they go through and I want to help support them for their own sake and mine so that I don't have to see them suffer daily. I have posed this question to other SF residents but how does allowing people to pitch tents on the sidewalk and suffer visibly help them or people just passing through? People that are not vulnerable are suffering because they're visibly seeing these people suffer. Who is winning here?
eli_gottlieb 6y ago
>But this is exactly a consequence of catering to wealthy tech: It wasn't tech that passed Prop 13 and imposed permanent austerity and deflationary budgeting on California's local governments.
souprock 6y ago
Most places don't do any "shoveling off the riff-raff", yet they don't have that problem. It appears that the huge per-person budget San Francisco has for homeless people is actually generating homeless people.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > Most places don't do any "shoveling off the riff-raff", yet they don't have that problem. In most major cities on the East coast at least, this is definitely routine practice but they just hide it from you.

KittenInABox 6y ago

Another issue I suggest is also that systemic issues are harder to solve- I don't live in SF but I understand there is corruption, NIMBYism, and waste that takes the considerable budget SF has and doesn't actually improve lives for the neediest who live there. Tech people haven't in general been highly politically involved, but political involvement- real political involvement, the kind that go to town halls as well as protests, the kind that build communities, etc. has been dying nationwide. The whole infrastructure of holding politicians accountable is rotting out from the country.

cynicalkane 6y ago

It's your claim that it's "tech"'s job to solve these issues, rather than the city government, the people whose actual job it is to solve these issues? Flush with extra cash from the taxes paid by "tech", to boot. Like, what do you want here? Should "tech" appropriate a significant part of the government's job in addressing these issues? I'm sure you don't actually want that.

bird_monster 6y ago
I agree with you, but I am also a person that just wants someone to do it. Anyone at all, really. City governments are failing fantastically in major tech hubs, I kind of just think fuck it. Let some chowderhead tech goon take a shot at solving housing/homelessness/whatever. Nobody else is going to.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- justin_oaks 6y ago
  That's if you can get the government out of the way. The problem isn't just that the government is doing nothing; it's that they actually block progress.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

lhorie 6y ago

> Rather than addressing transportation issues, tech just built their own exclusive network. Rather than addressing cost-of-living inequity, tech just drove up real-estate prices. This feels like misplaced blame? Is one expected to believe that "tech" should be doing the government's job? If anything, one could argue that tech did do its part by paying higher taxes on average </two-cents>

davorak 6y ago

> It sounds to me what you really want is for someone to alleviate your discomfort by shoveling off the riff-raff so that you can enjoy your bike ride, rather than having to address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth. I am not seeing anything in the grandparent that suggests they are not willing to pay for cleaner streets and better housing and homeless services through taxes to a well managed city.

vecinu 6y ago
You are correct, I am actually asking to pay more taxes if some of these problems could be solved. What good is having a lot of money if you're surrounded by problems and are unhappy? I would gladly spent it to make my community more egalitarian.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  The problem is that in reality, paying more taxes just creates more problems.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  I doubt more taxes would help. If you're in California and San Francisco, your taxes are already higher than they would be in most other places in the USA. Before I'd agree to paying even more, I'd want to know what exactly my existing taxes are paying for, and why those things are more important than cleaning up literal shit from the sidewalks.

jeffbee 6y ago

Development always focuses on the top of the market and there is nothing wrong with that. New houses are better and cost more. Their creation depresses the price of older houses. It is exactly analogous to the car market. You can't lower the price of used cars by outlawing new cars.

mikestew 6y ago

It sounds like to me that you're saying that the city and surrounding governments couldn't handle the new, unruly kid on the block that is "tech", so the kid gets blamed for having bad parents? "Tech" drove up real estate prices? That's a second order effect at best. address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth That's a hell of an unsupported stretch. But it is typical of the mindset: "rich people just want to stay rich, that's all want, net worth, blah, blah, blah." Look, there have to plenty of tech people like me that wonder why I'm not being taxed more to address these issues. I've got money to burn, take some of it, Local Government. (Uh, oh, here comes the jackass to suggest I voluntarily write a check to the government coffers; thanks, that was helpful.) Park some of those assumptions about people that fell into money, and maybe some solutions can be implemented together. Otherwise the alternative is to listen to the sound of our own voices.

threatofrain 6y ago

These issues are all political issues, so I'm not sure what people expect the tech minority to do ― become even more politically powerful, and even more influential in matters of civic life? Furthermore, the wealth of tech is completely different from the voting base of tech. This is a democratic city situated in a democratic state in a democratic country. So, like, either the people on any level want to do something or... do they want the Andrew Carnegie of tech to punch through the "red tape"? What is the city/state/federal political mood on matters of big homeless, housing, or infrastructure projects? Isn't it depressed or pessimistic?

vecinu 6y ago

> It sounds to me what you really want is for someone to alleviate your discomfort by shoveling off the riff-raff so that you can enjoy your bike ride, rather than having to address the systemic issues, which might impact your net worth. I would take issue with this assumption as I had moved from a pretty socialist country to SF, where I paid much higher taxes and didn't complain. Nay, I celebrated the taxes I paid because I saw where they went all around me. Fantastic infrastructure (SF roadways are littered with potholes and terrible quality), affordable housing and supported citizens. We have a very tech heavy scene in the city I moved from where people earn 6 figures, with a much higher population and the situation on the ground was nowhere near what it was in SF. I also take issue with your last statement because it implies I want "the poors" removed purely for my own enjoyment. I do not, I realize the suffering they go through and I want to help support them for their own sake and mine so that I don't have to see them suffer daily. I have posed this question to other SF residents but how does allowing people to pitch tents on the sidewalk and suffer visibly help them or people just passing through? People that are not vulnerable are suffering because they're visibly seeing these people suffer. Who is winning here?

eli_gottlieb 6y ago

>But this is exactly a consequence of catering to wealthy tech: It wasn't tech that passed Prop 13 and imposed permanent austerity and deflationary budgeting on California's local governments.

souprock 6y ago

Most places don't do any "shoveling off the riff-raff", yet they don't have that problem. It appears that the huge per-person budget San Francisco has for homeless people is actually generating homeless people.

whimsicalism 6y ago
> Most places don't do any "shoveling off the riff-raff", yet they don't have that problem. In most major cities on the East coast at least, this is definitely routine practice but they just hide it from you.