6 ms·

I was in SF a couple times for work and i was absolutely shocked at how disgusting it was. Granted, i'm not a city person.. insanely so - i hate cities.. but th

I was in SF a couple times for work and i was absolutely shocked at how disgusting it was. Granted, i'm not a city person.. insanely so - i hate cities.. but this was a new level for me. The amount of raw sewage alone that i smelt blew my mind. I'm shocked how much people put up with there.

kyleblarson 6y ago
I spent nearly every other week in SF from 2011 until COVID hit in February. Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN'.
- selectodude 6y ago
  >Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN' Heh, and here I am in Chicago thinking "holy shit this city is filthy!" when I go to New York. I haven't been to San Francisco in awhile, it must have deteriorated.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    The harsh winters alone send Chicago's homeless places like SF. The city's municipal workers used to wash down the surviving homeless encampments hiding from the cold on Lower Wacker with bleach and a fire hose without notice. You could differentiate Chicago's genuine homeless from the career panhandlers downtown by the bleach-stained clothes. Not sure if they still use this practice, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's easy to criticize SF for its negligence, but the homeless challenges are real and the affordable solutions tend to be severely lacking empathy. And SF lacks a rude force of nature doing most of the work every winter. Damp and chilly, sure, but still relatively comfortable. Chicago has it easy in this department, and its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either.
    - x87678r 6y ago
      No its politics. NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253 https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253
      - pengaru 6y ago
        > NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. Are you implying that's the right thing to do to someone living on the streets with nothing more than a tent for shelter?
        x87678r 6y ago
        Yes its better for the rest of the people who live there and probably better for the homeless guy too.
    - adkadskhj 6y ago
      > its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either. It's .. interesting, since i generally have no clue what to do here. I'm a super .. socialist _(or w/e)_ in that i believe in tons of government programs, but homelessness is something i almost don't believe in. It feels either a problem of: 1. Social safety nets to support working individuals experiencing tough times (i support tons of safety programs). 2. Or.. more controversially, mental health issues that shouldn't be allowed to exist in this state. Ie, if we had #1 then "no one" would be homeless - and those that are despite that, are too mentally unwell to be allowed the freedom to make such a decision. Though, i know nothing on the subject - and advertise as much. Nevertheless, i feel far less supportive of the homeless as a result - i split it mentally as either people i want to support via social nets - or mentally unwell people needing of hospitalization. A bit off topic perhaps, but i'm always interested in peoples opinion on the subject.
      - redis_mlc 6y ago
        I've been following the SF homeless situation pretty closely. The numbers are that of the $300-350 million/year SF budget for homeless, 60% goes to permanent rent subsidies (low-income long-term residents.) That leaves $120-140 million/year for actual street homeless of the reported 5,000 people. $30 million/year is given out as $500/month vouchers, leaving $90 million-$110 million unaccounted for (ie. likely social workers and bureaucrats.) Other cities have reported: - 100% of street homeless are on substances - 50% of street homeless are mentally ill That means 50% could still be treated/rehabilitated/re-employed with inexpensive programs (mailing address, internet access, showers, transitional housing.) SF has a couple problems though: - homeless migrate here, so it's really a federal problem - SF rents are so high that there will be a surging tide of homeless from the city residents post-2020. The lower-middle class individuals really need to emigrate in an orderly fashion beforehand.
hangonhn 6y ago
It depends heavily on where in the city you are. There are parts of SF that definitely makes me very uncomfortable (I've lived in Hong Kong and know my way around NYC) but SF is kind of interesting in it almost feels like a collection of small cities. Union Square is very, very different from Sea Cliff and because SF is relatively small physically, it doesn't take long to go from one part to another. I think people who live here tend to get used to seeing these things and also know to avoid spending too much time in some parts of the city.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Nobody is questioning that there are good neighborhoods. Every city has good neighborhoods. What has people scratching their heads is that the worst parts of lot of cities are still a lot better than the bad parts of SF. When the comparison is between Bangalore or Sao Paulo and Zurich it's easy to write off the difference as simply wealth. But when the American "shithole cities" like Detroit, Buffalo, Gary, Reno, etc that the people of SF like to sneer at are in fact better in their worst parts than the crown jewel of "muh fifth largest economy" it really makes people wonder what the heck went so wrong.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    I really don't know anyone in SF who thinks Detroit, Buffalo, etc in that way. They just tended to think of employment, amenities and available services lacking in those other cities. If work is remote (unsure if this will remain after vaccine allows us to work in offices again) then it opens up a lot of doors.
  - claydavisss 6y ago
    For 98% of Californians, "muh fifth largest economy" has actually been a profound net-negative. I'm amazed people who pay $3k/month to rent to one-bedroom apt still trot this out as a brag point. "Fifth largest economy" has worked out well for the 1%, people who bought homes forever ago, and really no one else.
    - throwaway201103 6y ago

kyleblarson 6y ago

I spent nearly every other week in SF from 2011 until COVID hit in February. Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN'.

selectodude 6y ago
>Went to NY for a conference last year and immediately thought 'holy shit this city is CLEAN' Heh, and here I am in Chicago thinking "holy shit this city is filthy!" when I go to New York. I haven't been to San Francisco in awhile, it must have deteriorated.
- pengaru 6y ago
  The harsh winters alone send Chicago's homeless places like SF. The city's municipal workers used to wash down the surviving homeless encampments hiding from the cold on Lower Wacker with bleach and a fire hose without notice. You could differentiate Chicago's genuine homeless from the career panhandlers downtown by the bleach-stained clothes. Not sure if they still use this practice, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's easy to criticize SF for its negligence, but the homeless challenges are real and the affordable solutions tend to be severely lacking empathy. And SF lacks a rude force of nature doing most of the work every winter. Damp and chilly, sure, but still relatively comfortable. Chicago has it easy in this department, and its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either.
  - x87678r 6y ago
    No its politics. NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253 https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02253
    - pengaru 6y ago
      > NYC if anyone sets up a tent you can report and it'll get dumped the same day. Are you implying that's the right thing to do to someone living on the streets with nothing more than a tent for shelter?
      - x87678r 6y ago
        Yes its better for the rest of the people who live there and probably better for the homeless guy too.
  - adkadskhj 6y ago
    > its occupants aren't exactly the most empathetic towards the homeless either. It's .. interesting, since i generally have no clue what to do here. I'm a super .. socialist _(or w/e)_ in that i believe in tons of government programs, but homelessness is something i almost don't believe in. It feels either a problem of: 1. Social safety nets to support working individuals experiencing tough times (i support tons of safety programs). 2. Or.. more controversially, mental health issues that shouldn't be allowed to exist in this state. Ie, if we had #1 then "no one" would be homeless - and those that are despite that, are too mentally unwell to be allowed the freedom to make such a decision. Though, i know nothing on the subject - and advertise as much. Nevertheless, i feel far less supportive of the homeless as a result - i split it mentally as either people i want to support via social nets - or mentally unwell people needing of hospitalization. A bit off topic perhaps, but i'm always interested in peoples opinion on the subject.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      I've been following the SF homeless situation pretty closely. The numbers are that of the $300-350 million/year SF budget for homeless, 60% goes to permanent rent subsidies (low-income long-term residents.) That leaves $120-140 million/year for actual street homeless of the reported 5,000 people. $30 million/year is given out as $500/month vouchers, leaving $90 million-$110 million unaccounted for (ie. likely social workers and bureaucrats.) Other cities have reported: - 100% of street homeless are on substances - 50% of street homeless are mentally ill That means 50% could still be treated/rehabilitated/re-employed with inexpensive programs (mailing address, internet access, showers, transitional housing.) SF has a couple problems though: - homeless migrate here, so it's really a federal problem - SF rents are so high that there will be a surging tide of homeless from the city residents post-2020. The lower-middle class individuals really need to emigrate in an orderly fashion beforehand.

hangonhn 6y ago

It depends heavily on where in the city you are. There are parts of SF that definitely makes me very uncomfortable (I've lived in Hong Kong and know my way around NYC) but SF is kind of interesting in it almost feels like a collection of small cities. Union Square is very, very different from Sea Cliff and because SF is relatively small physically, it doesn't take long to go from one part to another. I think people who live here tend to get used to seeing these things and also know to avoid spending too much time in some parts of the city.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Nobody is questioning that there are good neighborhoods. Every city has good neighborhoods. What has people scratching their heads is that the worst parts of lot of cities are still a lot better than the bad parts of SF. When the comparison is between Bangalore or Sao Paulo and Zurich it's easy to write off the difference as simply wealth. But when the American "shithole cities" like Detroit, Buffalo, Gary, Reno, etc that the people of SF like to sneer at are in fact better in their worst parts than the crown jewel of "muh fifth largest economy" it really makes people wonder what the heck went so wrong.
- r00fus 6y ago
  I really don't know anyone in SF who thinks Detroit, Buffalo, etc in that way. They just tended to think of employment, amenities and available services lacking in those other cities. If work is remote (unsure if this will remain after vaccine allows us to work in offices again) then it opens up a lot of doors.
- claydavisss 6y ago
  For 98% of Californians, "muh fifth largest economy" has actually been a profound net-negative. I'm amazed people who pay $3k/month to rent to one-bedroom apt still trot this out as a brag point. "Fifth largest economy" has worked out well for the 1%, people who bought homes forever ago, and really no one else.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago