5 ms·

SF had a city budget of approx. 12B in 2019-20[1]. If there is a tech flight, who is going to pick up the tab? Some of the options I see range from unlikely to

SF had a city budget of approx. 12B in 2019-20[1]. If there is a tech flight, who is going to pick up the tab? Some of the options I see range from unlikely to very unlikely to impossible - cut government services, increase city income tax, add a wealth tax for SF residents, incentivize the tech industry to return. [1] https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/FY2019-20_and_FY2020-21_Mayor%27s_Proposed_Budget_Presentation.pdf https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/FY2019-20_and_FY2020-2...

selectodude 6y ago
>SF had a city budget of approx. 12B in 2019-20 That is fucking bananas. Chicago has a city budget of $12 billion this year with a population almost exactly three times higher. What in the hell are they spending money on?
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  Shoveling enormous amounts of cash to homeless nonprofits who are incentivized to keep people homeless.
- fmajid 6y ago
  The budget was $6B in 2008. About 40% of the windfall was captured by the bureaucracy in pay and benefits. And the city also has a huge welfare-industrial complex that bristled at the audacity of former Supervisor Sean Elsbernd when he asked for accountability for the money spent. Most of the activists interviewed for the article are in fact part of that parasitic group.
  - asdff 6y ago
    Why aren't people marching on city hall about this?
- mikeryan 6y ago
  What in the hell are they spending money on? Salaries and Pension obligations. If SF was going to make one great budgetary fix it would be to move away from pensions for public employees and move to a more traditional 401k retirement funds. The amount of money the city has to continue to pay to fund pension obligations is obscene. My Mom married an ex SF firefighter. He had done his 25 years, retired around 50 and lived to 92. Full Pension for 40 years and now my Mom gets a chunk. She was his second wife and married him 25 years after he left the department. Great for her... https://www.openthebooks.com/forbes-why-san-francisco-is-in-trouble--19000-highly-compensated-city-employees-earned-150000-in-pay--perks/ https://www.openthebooks.com/forbes-why-san-francisco-is-in-...
  - selectodude 6y ago
    Yeah but Chicago pays for those things too, maybe even moreso. Are the SF pensions actually funded correctly?
    - mikeryan 6y ago
      No San Francisco is underfunded and they've been added to by Voter initiatives. They also suffer from issues where they've had to increase pension obligations as the Cost of Living has increased at a greater rate than elsewhere. A few years old... https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2017/07/11/san-francisco-pension-liability.html https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2017/07/11/san... That's the pensions. SF public salaries are also likely 50 to 100% higher than in Chicago.
    - throwaway201103 6y ago
      No they (Chicago) are not paying for them. They have the obligations, but they are underfunded. That's their big problem.
    - edmundsauto 6y ago
      Since SF is also a county, aren't they also carrying county level costs (multiplied by the high COL factor too).
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Chicago is also bankrupt like the entire state of Illinois.
- wahern 6y ago
  > Chicago has a city budget of $12 billion this year with a population almost exactly three times higher. What in the hell are they spending money on? 1) San Francisco has a unified city-county government. The combined Chicago-Cook County budget is ~$20 billion. 2) San Francisco's budget includes both its public transportation agency (SFMTA) as well as its international airport (SFO). I'm not sure about Chicago, but I think Chicago's budget includes its two airports (ORD, MDW), but not CTA. Cook County's budget doesn't seem to include CTA, either. Airports generally pay for themselves (at least these 3 seem to), so they inflate headline budget numbers but are otherwise irrelevant. However, public transportation (including in SF) is usually a significant net cost. 3) The cost of living in San Francisco is much higher and therefore government pay scales in San Francisco are some of the highest in the country. Of course, many people choose to live far outside the city, but the pay still needs to compensate for the commute. OTOH, San Francisco's budget DOES NOT include its K-12 public school system. (AFAIU, all school systems in California are separate entities principally funded by the state.) Chicago's budget DOES seem to include its K-12 public schools. Fortunately, many of San Fransisco's discretionary expenditures are elastic, both due to their nature (e.g. homeless outreach) as well as SF's comparatively good public union relations. Next year's budget was scaled back by $1.2 billion ($13.6 -> $12.4).
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    Chicago's CTA is I believe part of the RTA, which also operates the suburban mass transit (Metra trains, and Pace buses). This spans Cook and the surrounding counties and some of the trains even run into neighboring states (Indiana, Wisconsin).
wskinner 6y ago
The speaker of the house lives in SF. If there is a federal bailout of state and local governments, San Francisco will likely be first in line.
asdff 6y ago
They will be fine considering Los Angeles makes 10.5B function across 5x the population and 10x the land area.

selectodude 6y ago

>SF had a city budget of approx. 12B in 2019-20 That is fucking bananas. Chicago has a city budget of $12 billion this year with a population almost exactly three times higher. What in the hell are they spending money on?

baggy_trough 6y ago
Shoveling enormous amounts of cash to homeless nonprofits who are incentivized to keep people homeless.
fmajid 6y ago
The budget was $6B in 2008. About 40% of the windfall was captured by the bureaucracy in pay and benefits. And the city also has a huge welfare-industrial complex that bristled at the audacity of former Supervisor Sean Elsbernd when he asked for accountability for the money spent. Most of the activists interviewed for the article are in fact part of that parasitic group.
- asdff 6y ago
  Why aren't people marching on city hall about this?
mikeryan 6y ago
What in the hell are they spending money on? Salaries and Pension obligations. If SF was going to make one great budgetary fix it would be to move away from pensions for public employees and move to a more traditional 401k retirement funds. The amount of money the city has to continue to pay to fund pension obligations is obscene. My Mom married an ex SF firefighter. He had done his 25 years, retired around 50 and lived to 92. Full Pension for 40 years and now my Mom gets a chunk. She was his second wife and married him 25 years after he left the department. Great for her... https://www.openthebooks.com/forbes-why-san-francisco-is-in-trouble--19000-highly-compensated-city-employees-earned-150000-in-pay--perks/ https://www.openthebooks.com/forbes-why-san-francisco-is-in-...
- selectodude 6y ago
  Yeah but Chicago pays for those things too, maybe even moreso. Are the SF pensions actually funded correctly?
  - mikeryan 6y ago
    No San Francisco is underfunded and they've been added to by Voter initiatives. They also suffer from issues where they've had to increase pension obligations as the Cost of Living has increased at a greater rate than elsewhere. A few years old... https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2017/07/11/san-francisco-pension-liability.html https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2017/07/11/san... That's the pensions. SF public salaries are also likely 50 to 100% higher than in Chicago.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    No they (Chicago) are not paying for them. They have the obligations, but they are underfunded. That's their big problem.
  - edmundsauto 6y ago
    Since SF is also a county, aren't they also carrying county level costs (multiplied by the high COL factor too).
throwaway201103 6y ago
Chicago is also bankrupt like the entire state of Illinois.
wahern 6y ago
> Chicago has a city budget of $12 billion this year with a population almost exactly three times higher. What in the hell are they spending money on? 1) San Francisco has a unified city-county government. The combined Chicago-Cook County budget is ~$20 billion. 2) San Francisco's budget includes both its public transportation agency (SFMTA) as well as its international airport (SFO). I'm not sure about Chicago, but I think Chicago's budget includes its two airports (ORD, MDW), but not CTA. Cook County's budget doesn't seem to include CTA, either. Airports generally pay for themselves (at least these 3 seem to), so they inflate headline budget numbers but are otherwise irrelevant. However, public transportation (including in SF) is usually a significant net cost. 3) The cost of living in San Francisco is much higher and therefore government pay scales in San Francisco are some of the highest in the country. Of course, many people choose to live far outside the city, but the pay still needs to compensate for the commute. OTOH, San Francisco's budget DOES NOT include its K-12 public school system. (AFAIU, all school systems in California are separate entities principally funded by the state.) Chicago's budget DOES seem to include its K-12 public schools. Fortunately, many of San Fransisco's discretionary expenditures are elastic, both due to their nature (e.g. homeless outreach) as well as SF's comparatively good public union relations. Next year's budget was scaled back by $1.2 billion ($13.6 -> $12.4).
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Chicago's CTA is I believe part of the RTA, which also operates the suburban mass transit (Metra trains, and Pace buses). This spans Cook and the surrounding counties and some of the trains even run into neighboring states (Indiana, Wisconsin).

wskinner 6y ago

The speaker of the house lives in SF. If there is a federal bailout of state and local governments, San Francisco will likely be first in line.

asdff 6y ago

They will be fine considering Los Angeles makes 10.5B function across 5x the population and 10x the land area.