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> States maybe could but only because of very old case law that might well not stand up today. Of course, private workplaces, schools, government offices, airli

> States maybe could but only because of very old case law that might well not stand up today. Of course, private workplaces, schools, government offices, airlines, etc. could to the degree that it might be quite difficult at some point to refuse. States probably can compel people to take it, considering some already require it for use of public services like schools. I’m guessing private companies can do whatever they want as long as they avoid running into disability law. I think this is a problem though - as a matter of principle, bodily autonomy is sacrosanct. Citizens who are forced to give up bodily autonomy to use basic services they can’t reasonably avoid (roads, public transportation, schools, etc) simply don’t have basic freedoms in my view.

ghaff 6y ago
IANAL, but the Supreme Court case I'm aware of upheld a Massachusetts law requiring smallpox vaccinations (in 1905). That said, the Supreme Court also upheld forced sterilization of the mentally defective in the early 20th Century so I'm not at all sure 100-year old court cases would be expected to be upheld today. I don't really disagree with you in general. SWAT teams won't be holding people down and injecting people by force. But the practical effect isn't that different from a jurisdiction effectively requiring proof of vaccination to leave your house.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> States probably can compel people to take it, considering some already require it for use of public services like schools. Public schools likely could not exist in the densities they currently exist if people didn't vaccinate. Likewise, dense urban housing, and many public venues would cease to be viable. Measles spread far faster than COVID; even with something like 95% of the population vaccinated we still have outbreaks in high anti-vaxxer communities. If we didn't require measles vaccines where we do, it would be absolutely everywhere. Likewise similarly conquered diseases like smallpox and polio. > Citizens who are forced to give up bodily autonomy to use basic services they can’t reasonably avoid (roads, public transportation, schools, etc) simply don’t have basic freedoms in my view. To date, no state requires vaccinations to use roads/ public transportation and I find it unlikely that they ever will. But I would support requiring proof of vaccination at the state/ national borders during an outbreak to prevent spreaders. Likewise, large gatherings (including schools) absolutely must require vaccinations. This isn't a matter of freedom/ versus not freedom. If they didn't require vaccination, they could not safely exist. If you choose to opt out of large events, then I support that right. But schools/ colleges/ concerts/ etc, cannot exist in a vaccine optional world.

ghaff 6y ago

IANAL, but the Supreme Court case I'm aware of upheld a Massachusetts law requiring smallpox vaccinations (in 1905). That said, the Supreme Court also upheld forced sterilization of the mentally defective in the early 20th Century so I'm not at all sure 100-year old court cases would be expected to be upheld today. I don't really disagree with you in general. SWAT teams won't be holding people down and injecting people by force. But the practical effect isn't that different from a jurisdiction effectively requiring proof of vaccination to leave your house.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> States probably can compel people to take it, considering some already require it for use of public services like schools. Public schools likely could not exist in the densities they currently exist if people didn't vaccinate. Likewise, dense urban housing, and many public venues would cease to be viable. Measles spread far faster than COVID; even with something like 95% of the population vaccinated we still have outbreaks in high anti-vaxxer communities. If we didn't require measles vaccines where we do, it would be absolutely everywhere. Likewise similarly conquered diseases like smallpox and polio. > Citizens who are forced to give up bodily autonomy to use basic services they can’t reasonably avoid (roads, public transportation, schools, etc) simply don’t have basic freedoms in my view. To date, no state requires vaccinations to use roads/ public transportation and I find it unlikely that they ever will. But I would support requiring proof of vaccination at the state/ national borders during an outbreak to prevent spreaders. Likewise, large gatherings (including schools) absolutely must require vaccinations. This isn't a matter of freedom/ versus not freedom. If they didn't require vaccination, they could not safely exist. If you choose to opt out of large events, then I support that right. But schools/ colleges/ concerts/ etc, cannot exist in a vaccine optional world.