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Yes. For some types of plant, a variety means a population that is a stable and has similar characteristics, and you can grow these from seed, and they will gen

Yes. For some types of plant, a variety means a population that is a stable and has similar characteristics, and you can grow these from seed, and they will generally look like their parent plants. Apples are not like that. Each plant grown from seed is vastly different from the mother plant, and you don't even know what the father plant is, because it could be an apple, a crab apple, a quince, etc. Most of these random plants are useless for fruit. And so, for apples we use the name "variety" to mean clones of one single plant. So, all "bramley" apple trees are clones of the original bramley apple tree in Southwell, Nottinghamshire, UK. This is done by taking a cutting of the tree, and grafting it onto a specially grown root. So when someone says they have found a new variety of apple, what they actually mean is that they found an apple tree that grew from seed, and it actually looks and tastes nice, and therefore might be worth cloning and spreading around the world.

chrisseaton 6y ago
Ah so 'variety' sort of implicitly means 'useful, viable, variety'?
- jfengel 6y ago
  Exactly. Though in this case, the discovery was just that it was visually interesting, and it's sort of a coincidence that it's even edible. The odds are it won't become useful or viable.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    If it's large, edible, tasts good and lasts well (which IIRC apples usually do) why not?
    - jfengel 6y ago
      It needs to be shippable without bruising. It needs to take well to grafting. It needs to be resistant to pests and diseases, and thrive well on the kinds of fertilizers readily available to farmers. It needs to grow well in orchards. It needs to be easy for pickers to pick. It needs to grow fairly regular shapes and not look too ugly. Without all of that, it could perhaps find itself a niche spot in specialty orchards if it tastes amazing or otherwise piques people's attention. There are a few thousand varieties grown that way. But a lot of those are in danger of disappearing if people lose interest, and we've already lost thousands of named varieties of apple. To really take off it needs to be friendly to farmers in all of the ways I mentioned, or they just won't grow it.
      - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        You sound like an expert (no sarc), so please allow me to broaden my education if you will, there's quite a bit you said that suggests stuff I'm unaware of. > It needs to be shippable without bruising. I thought all apples bruised easily, are there degrees of bruisability? (on reflection, comparing a quince and a pear to an apple, I suppose that makes sense). > It needs to take well to grafting. Interesting - some don't? I'd not have guessed that, I just unthinkingly assumed they'd all be about the same. (I knew a guy who told me his dad had grafted a pineapple to an orange tree. He was very young). > It needs to be resistant to pests and diseases, Very good point. Hadn't considered it. If it managed in hedgerows there's hope though. > thrive well on the kinds of fertilizers readily available to farmers. I just assumed (again) that all fertilisers were much the same, P, N, Ph etc with a few trace elements added so what kinds of fertilisers? or are you distinguishing that from what I'd call manures-types? > It needs to grow well in orchards. Some don't?? > It needs to be easy for pickers to pick. Excellent point. > It needs to grow fairly regular shapes and not look too ugly. Sigh. Thank you, supermarkets, for this silliness.
        jfengel 6y ago
        I'm not an expert, though I have been adjacent to experts, so I'm speaking from there. I don't mean to over-represent my credentials. Farms operate on very slim margins, so small changes can make a big difference. Some trees require more babying when they graft (including time to be ready for market), and some require more fertilizer (of the various types) than others (and perform poorly with too much). Some apples do bruise more readily than others, and the red varieties tend to show the brusing less. That doesn't prevent some from being successful anyway; Granny Smiths are my favorite. But a small percent differential of loss can make the difference between a farmer's choice to grow that or not.
        throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        Very interesting, thanks

chrisseaton 6y ago

Ah so 'variety' sort of implicitly means 'useful, viable, variety'?

jfengel 6y ago
Exactly. Though in this case, the discovery was just that it was visually interesting, and it's sort of a coincidence that it's even edible. The odds are it won't become useful or viable.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  If it's large, edible, tasts good and lasts well (which IIRC apples usually do) why not?
  - jfengel 6y ago
    It needs to be shippable without bruising. It needs to take well to grafting. It needs to be resistant to pests and diseases, and thrive well on the kinds of fertilizers readily available to farmers. It needs to grow well in orchards. It needs to be easy for pickers to pick. It needs to grow fairly regular shapes and not look too ugly. Without all of that, it could perhaps find itself a niche spot in specialty orchards if it tastes amazing or otherwise piques people's attention. There are a few thousand varieties grown that way. But a lot of those are in danger of disappearing if people lose interest, and we've already lost thousands of named varieties of apple. To really take off it needs to be friendly to farmers in all of the ways I mentioned, or they just won't grow it.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      You sound like an expert (no sarc), so please allow me to broaden my education if you will, there's quite a bit you said that suggests stuff I'm unaware of. > It needs to be shippable without bruising. I thought all apples bruised easily, are there degrees of bruisability? (on reflection, comparing a quince and a pear to an apple, I suppose that makes sense). > It needs to take well to grafting. Interesting - some don't? I'd not have guessed that, I just unthinkingly assumed they'd all be about the same. (I knew a guy who told me his dad had grafted a pineapple to an orange tree. He was very young). > It needs to be resistant to pests and diseases, Very good point. Hadn't considered it. If it managed in hedgerows there's hope though. > thrive well on the kinds of fertilizers readily available to farmers. I just assumed (again) that all fertilisers were much the same, P, N, Ph etc with a few trace elements added so what kinds of fertilisers? or are you distinguishing that from what I'd call manures-types? > It needs to grow well in orchards. Some don't?? > It needs to be easy for pickers to pick. Excellent point. > It needs to grow fairly regular shapes and not look too ugly. Sigh. Thank you, supermarkets, for this silliness.
      - jfengel 6y ago
        I'm not an expert, though I have been adjacent to experts, so I'm speaking from there. I don't mean to over-represent my credentials. Farms operate on very slim margins, so small changes can make a big difference. Some trees require more babying when they graft (including time to be ready for market), and some require more fertilizer (of the various types) than others (and perform poorly with too much). Some apples do bruise more readily than others, and the red varieties tend to show the brusing less. That doesn't prevent some from being successful anyway; Granny Smiths are my favorite. But a small percent differential of loss can make the difference between a farmer's choice to grow that or not.
        throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        Very interesting, thanks