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The thing is that governments are generally influenced more by the commercial interests of large corporations and capital-owners, than by popular interests. The

The thing is that governments are generally influenced more by the commercial interests of large corporations and capital-owners, than by popular interests. There needs to be a very strong "pull", with a lot of organizing and pressure on politicians and agencies, to counteract corporate influence - and it's not enough that the reality is obvious. Also, in most world states, large corporations are able to threaten leaving - stopping activity in the country - which can be quite a hit to the local economy for smaller states and larger corporations. Another point which hinders your suggestions is the imbalance between world powers, especially the US (and to some extent the EU and China) - so that if one or several of those are beholden to corporate interests, then the others, or world-wide bodies, will find it very difficult to mandate things, apply taxation etc.

tannhaeuser 6y ago
Not sure I understand what you're saying in the last paragraph, but critique against lobbying definitely hits closer to home recently in EU at least; eg. just yesterday, French magazine Le Point has published a leaked Google memo detailing their strategy against new EU legislation [1]; paywalled, unfortunately, but [2] (in German) has some more details. After all, politicians in democracies should be responsible to their electorate, shouldn't they? [1]: https://www.lepoint.fr/high-tech-internet/exclusif-comment-google-veut-faire-plier-bruxelles-28-10-2020-2398468_47.php https://www.lepoint.fr/high-tech-internet/exclusif-comment-g... [2]: https://www.lobbycontrol.de/2020/11/mit-harten-bandagen-wie-google-strengere-regeln-fuer-internetplattformen-verhindern-will/ https://www.lobbycontrol.de/2020/11/mit-harten-bandagen-wie-...
- michaelt 6y ago
  > Not sure I understand what you're saying in the last paragraph If a big American corporation is transferring lots of money from Europe to America while engaging in some sketchy behaviour, Europe might be more enthusiastic about clamping down on that than America. For both financial reasons and due to different political priorities. It's not like Europe could unilaterally reverse Google's purchase of Youtube or Facebook's purchase of WhatsApp.
- einpoklum 6y ago
  > politicians in democracies should be responsible to their electorate, shouldn't they? Unfortunately, I don't think we can say that they should. I mean, in democratic ideology they should, but democratic state institutions, legal and organizational arrangements are not fashioned to achieve this outcome; and most democratic states were not, after all, created by the mass of people setting up those arrangements. Rather, elite groups and powerful interests set such states up, with democratic elections being a mechanism for legitimizing the new regime among the masses, or a concession to public pressure.
brobdingnagians 6y ago
The elimination of corporations as special legal entities would make governments more directly controlled by people rather than wealthy megacorps. It is an unpopular line of thought because of the perceived economic benefits of megacorporations, but I'm not so sure they really are a good use of the talent that gets sucked up in them. Maybe we'd have a more innovative society if our culture took back personal responsibility.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > elimination of corporations as special legal entities would make governments more directly controlled by people rather than wealthy megacorps Unlikely. Prior to incorporation, families were the operating unit of commercial and thus military and political activity. This pattern would resurrect itself: families, like corporations, can be immortal. That means they can plan and be trusted for the long term. Note, too, that incorporation gives rise to charities, unions and independent lobbying groups like the Sierra Club. You lose those when you wipe out legal personhood.
- einpoklum 6y ago
  Can you elaborate? Corporations are legal entities that aren't an individual or merely a group of individuals. Are you suggesting that corporations will be legally treated as the group of the shareholders? Something else? I'm not following.

tannhaeuser 6y ago

Not sure I understand what you're saying in the last paragraph, but critique against lobbying definitely hits closer to home recently in EU at least; eg. just yesterday, French magazine Le Point has published a leaked Google memo detailing their strategy against new EU legislation [1]; paywalled, unfortunately, but [2] (in German) has some more details. After all, politicians in democracies should be responsible to their electorate, shouldn't they? [1]: https://www.lepoint.fr/high-tech-internet/exclusif-comment-google-veut-faire-plier-bruxelles-28-10-2020-2398468_47.php https://www.lepoint.fr/high-tech-internet/exclusif-comment-g... [2]: https://www.lobbycontrol.de/2020/11/mit-harten-bandagen-wie-google-strengere-regeln-fuer-internetplattformen-verhindern-will/ https://www.lobbycontrol.de/2020/11/mit-harten-bandagen-wie-...

michaelt 6y ago
> Not sure I understand what you're saying in the last paragraph If a big American corporation is transferring lots of money from Europe to America while engaging in some sketchy behaviour, Europe might be more enthusiastic about clamping down on that than America. For both financial reasons and due to different political priorities. It's not like Europe could unilaterally reverse Google's purchase of Youtube or Facebook's purchase of WhatsApp.
einpoklum 6y ago
> politicians in democracies should be responsible to their electorate, shouldn't they? Unfortunately, I don't think we can say that they should. I mean, in democratic ideology they should, but democratic state institutions, legal and organizational arrangements are not fashioned to achieve this outcome; and most democratic states were not, after all, created by the mass of people setting up those arrangements. Rather, elite groups and powerful interests set such states up, with democratic elections being a mechanism for legitimizing the new regime among the masses, or a concession to public pressure.

brobdingnagians 6y ago

The elimination of corporations as special legal entities would make governments more directly controlled by people rather than wealthy megacorps. It is an unpopular line of thought because of the perceived economic benefits of megacorporations, but I'm not so sure they really are a good use of the talent that gets sucked up in them. Maybe we'd have a more innovative society if our culture took back personal responsibility.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> elimination of corporations as special legal entities would make governments more directly controlled by people rather than wealthy megacorps Unlikely. Prior to incorporation, families were the operating unit of commercial and thus military and political activity. This pattern would resurrect itself: families, like corporations, can be immortal. That means they can plan and be trusted for the long term. Note, too, that incorporation gives rise to charities, unions and independent lobbying groups like the Sierra Club. You lose those when you wipe out legal personhood.
einpoklum 6y ago
Can you elaborate? Corporations are legal entities that aren't an individual or merely a group of individuals. Are you suggesting that corporations will be legally treated as the group of the shareholders? Something else? I'm not following.