6 ms·

I don't think the chance of cheating is a serious issue if you're playing at a low level online. You're generally matched against playes with a similar rating,

I don't think the chance of cheating is a serious issue if you're playing at a low level online. You're generally matched against playes with a similar rating, and someone using a computer heavily would drastically inflate their rating. Which also increases the chance at detection significantly. Computers are scary good at chess, it's not exactly invisible if you use them to cheat. If you're a beginner it's also quite hard to understand why the computer makes certain moves, so if you just sprinkle in some computer moves in your game it's likely you might just fail to capitalize on those moves because you don't understand their purpose. The computer also plays some quite non-human moves at times, which is also likely to draw attention if someone is cheating a lot. I'm not saying people don't cheat online in chess, but I don't think it's anywhere near prevalent enough to ruin the game.

jjeaff 6y ago
I suppose if you are really cheating, you wouldn't sprinkle in some computer moves. You would just move your pieces in the computer game exactly as your human opponent does. Then you move your own pieces in the human game exactly as the computer does in the computer game.
- fabian2k 6y ago
  Then you're playing at something like 3000-3500 ELO. That's very, very far from subtle. And that is something you can detect by analyzing the games, a human won't pick the engine moves all the time.
  - faceplanted 6y ago
    I've never looked into it myself but when I was graduating someone in my graduating classes final project was a cheating detection system for chess that essentially ran your moves through a variety of different chess AI's like stockfish such and over the game built up a tally of matching moves for each system, and if you matched one too closely flagged you as cheating. I asked the guy how he would cheat against it and his suggestion was basically finding chess engines with variable "skill" levels and varying it over the game, essentially pulling out miraculous recoveries or having a good start but then forcing your AI to try to select a win state a few turns later than optimal but using the same heuristics, so it's still practically unbeatable but drags people along a bit longer to disguise itself. Also I don't know if this exists, but is it possible to tune an AI to a specific ELO to begin with? If so you could set it to gradually ramp up over a long time so it looks like you're steadily improving over months or years and get to the top, but I imagine that wouldn't appeal to the people already willing to cheat anyway.
    - MauranKilom 6y ago
      The blunders computers make and that human players make are/feel very different. I wouldn't expect to last long if I were cheating on, say, lichess.org by playing out the moves of a mix of engines at various ratings.
      - mewpmewp2 6y ago
        You could still use computer assistance which could suggest several different moves with explanations, and you could just pick one of those, maybe not necessarily the best move. Basically computers can give good hints for you. Pretty sure this type of thing would be undetectable.
        amcoastal 6y ago
        You can also just use the computer for the opening. If you don't have a certain opening, or response to a certain opening memorized, just use a computer. The difference between a memorized opening and what a computer would suggest is basically nil.
        whimsicalism 6y ago
        This is the only sort of cheating suggested in this thread that wouldn't be caught, but wouldn't actually be that helpful.
        YawningAngel 6y ago
        It's pretty helpful for the average human. Most people can't blast out 15 moves of theory correctly for every possible opening, so you'd avoid a lot of bad middle games or losses to traps. It probably isn't as helpful to a grandmaster, but that's true of engine analysis in general
        tsbinz 6y ago
        Unless you're very careful I think it should be detectable at those levels. If someone is taking the same amount of time when playing some rare and tricky opening line as they are when playing the QGD, that's pretty fishy if they don't have the level where you have a big variety memorized.
- chongli 6y ago
  As a human player you can combat that by keeping the position closed for as long as possible. If you’re playing on short time controls with no increment then your opponent will be wasting a lot of time transferring their moves back and forth to the computer. Then when their time gets really low they will panic and have to play the moves on their own, without computer assistance.
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    That's doesn't solve the problem of avoiding an unfun bad game.
bttrfl 6y ago
I sometimes play online and for some reason I frequently stumble upon users who cheat in all kinds of ways. From using a computer (it's easy to tell when all moves regardless of difficulty take exactly the same time to make) to baiting me to play a 3-min game and then changing it to 30-min right before I accept the game. The only reasonable explanation is that they are trying to harvest ranking to "transfer" it to another account. Regardless of the motivation is does suck out the joy for me.
- Raphael_Amiard 6y ago
  I have a completely opposite experience (on chess.com). Playing a lot of games lately at a low level, never stumbled upon a cheater.
  - whammywon 6y ago
    I would imagine those that cheat at online chess wouldn't stay at a low level for very long.
    - antaviana 6y ago
      I play only anonymous games not rated in lichess.org as. I like that it takes virtually one second to find an opponent match in my time control (5m+0). My play level is around 1800-1900 FIDE (last Classic game played some 10 years ago though), and it is true that I win a lot more than I lose (so I guess that the crowd in Anonymous mode must be somewhere 1400-1900 FIDE), but I still enjoy the games. You can tell by the moves that opponents are more often than not club-level players, and I like not having any idea of what level my opponent has, so I focus on what happens on the board. What I do not like is that, at least in anonymous mode, some players abandon the game without resigning, sometimes just a few moves still in the opening if they get a slightly worse position. Also for some reason some players play deliberately bad in the opening. Maybe they like the idea of a comeback, but I don't like it when it happens.
      - thereisnospork 6y ago
Kaibeezy 6y ago
Accused of cheating online (scrabble, chess, trivia) so often, I just had to stop playing pickup games. Now I only play with friends.
- honkdaddy 6y ago
  Was this recently? Unless you're an absolutely exceptional chess player, both Chess.com and Lichess are filled with enough good players that I'd be surprised if you flew through the ranks quickly enough to be accused of cheating :)
  - Kaibeezy 6y ago
    You know... no, not recently. I can see from many of the comments here that chess seems to have found a way to mitigate, so maybe I’ll give it another go. Thanks to you and sjcsjc for the encouragement.
- sjcsjc 6y ago
  I experienced that with Scrabble (and as you, only play with friends now), but not with Chess. But then I'm not very good at Chess (rapid rating c 1300 on chess.com)

jjeaff 6y ago

I suppose if you are really cheating, you wouldn't sprinkle in some computer moves. You would just move your pieces in the computer game exactly as your human opponent does. Then you move your own pieces in the human game exactly as the computer does in the computer game.

fabian2k 6y ago
Then you're playing at something like 3000-3500 ELO. That's very, very far from subtle. And that is something you can detect by analyzing the games, a human won't pick the engine moves all the time.
- faceplanted 6y ago
  I've never looked into it myself but when I was graduating someone in my graduating classes final project was a cheating detection system for chess that essentially ran your moves through a variety of different chess AI's like stockfish such and over the game built up a tally of matching moves for each system, and if you matched one too closely flagged you as cheating. I asked the guy how he would cheat against it and his suggestion was basically finding chess engines with variable "skill" levels and varying it over the game, essentially pulling out miraculous recoveries or having a good start but then forcing your AI to try to select a win state a few turns later than optimal but using the same heuristics, so it's still practically unbeatable but drags people along a bit longer to disguise itself. Also I don't know if this exists, but is it possible to tune an AI to a specific ELO to begin with? If so you could set it to gradually ramp up over a long time so it looks like you're steadily improving over months or years and get to the top, but I imagine that wouldn't appeal to the people already willing to cheat anyway.
  - MauranKilom 6y ago
    The blunders computers make and that human players make are/feel very different. I wouldn't expect to last long if I were cheating on, say, lichess.org by playing out the moves of a mix of engines at various ratings.
    - mewpmewp2 6y ago
      You could still use computer assistance which could suggest several different moves with explanations, and you could just pick one of those, maybe not necessarily the best move. Basically computers can give good hints for you. Pretty sure this type of thing would be undetectable.
      - amcoastal 6y ago
        You can also just use the computer for the opening. If you don't have a certain opening, or response to a certain opening memorized, just use a computer. The difference between a memorized opening and what a computer would suggest is basically nil.
        whimsicalism 6y ago
        This is the only sort of cheating suggested in this thread that wouldn't be caught, but wouldn't actually be that helpful.
        YawningAngel 6y ago
        It's pretty helpful for the average human. Most people can't blast out 15 moves of theory correctly for every possible opening, so you'd avoid a lot of bad middle games or losses to traps. It probably isn't as helpful to a grandmaster, but that's true of engine analysis in general
        tsbinz 6y ago
        Unless you're very careful I think it should be detectable at those levels. If someone is taking the same amount of time when playing some rare and tricky opening line as they are when playing the QGD, that's pretty fishy if they don't have the level where you have a big variety memorized.
chongli 6y ago
As a human player you can combat that by keeping the position closed for as long as possible. If you’re playing on short time controls with no increment then your opponent will be wasting a lot of time transferring their moves back and forth to the computer. Then when their time gets really low they will panic and have to play the moves on their own, without computer assistance.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  That's doesn't solve the problem of avoiding an unfun bad game.

bttrfl 6y ago

I sometimes play online and for some reason I frequently stumble upon users who cheat in all kinds of ways. From using a computer (it's easy to tell when all moves regardless of difficulty take exactly the same time to make) to baiting me to play a 3-min game and then changing it to 30-min right before I accept the game. The only reasonable explanation is that they are trying to harvest ranking to "transfer" it to another account. Regardless of the motivation is does suck out the joy for me.

Raphael_Amiard 6y ago
I have a completely opposite experience (on chess.com). Playing a lot of games lately at a low level, never stumbled upon a cheater.
- whammywon 6y ago
  I would imagine those that cheat at online chess wouldn't stay at a low level for very long.
  - antaviana 6y ago
    I play only anonymous games not rated in lichess.org as. I like that it takes virtually one second to find an opponent match in my time control (5m+0). My play level is around 1800-1900 FIDE (last Classic game played some 10 years ago though), and it is true that I win a lot more than I lose (so I guess that the crowd in Anonymous mode must be somewhere 1400-1900 FIDE), but I still enjoy the games. You can tell by the moves that opponents are more often than not club-level players, and I like not having any idea of what level my opponent has, so I focus on what happens on the board. What I do not like is that, at least in anonymous mode, some players abandon the game without resigning, sometimes just a few moves still in the opening if they get a slightly worse position. Also for some reason some players play deliberately bad in the opening. Maybe they like the idea of a comeback, but I don't like it when it happens.
    - thereisnospork 6y ago

Kaibeezy 6y ago

Accused of cheating online (scrabble, chess, trivia) so often, I just had to stop playing pickup games. Now I only play with friends.

honkdaddy 6y ago
Was this recently? Unless you're an absolutely exceptional chess player, both Chess.com and Lichess are filled with enough good players that I'd be surprised if you flew through the ranks quickly enough to be accused of cheating :)
- Kaibeezy 6y ago
  You know... no, not recently. I can see from many of the comments here that chess seems to have found a way to mitigate, so maybe I’ll give it another go. Thanks to you and sjcsjc for the encouragement.
sjcsjc 6y ago
I experienced that with Scrabble (and as you, only play with friends now), but not with Chess. But then I'm not very good at Chess (rapid rating c 1300 on chess.com)