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I think this illustrates a problem with just about all areas of environmentalism. You start off with a premise that's widely agreeable like "ICE cars are bad fo

I think this illustrates a problem with just about all areas of environmentalism. You start off with a premise that's widely agreeable like "ICE cars are bad for the environment" and slowly edge towards stuff like "private vehicle ownership is a blight on society", which is far less agreeable and completely ignores what most people in society actually want. 20 years ago I used to vote for local green candidates in various elections, but their main platform now is radical socialist economic reform. I'm not sure they're even bothered about the environment any more.

jesstaa 6y ago
"consumerist capitalism is an environmental disaster" isn't a hard argument to make and people eventually realize most environmentalism is just stacking the deck chairs on the titanic.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  I can’t see how consumerist socialism is going to somehow solve all those problems. In any election these days it’s almost impossible to cast a vote for environmentalist policies without also voting for radical socialist economic policies. I’d suggest this is actually quite a problem for anybody who cares about environmentalism, because the number of people who want full socialism is way lower than the number of people who care about the environment.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Are there any candidates running on a platform of 'full socialism' or even 'radical policies'? Candidates in America, even those considered to the left of their party (e.g. Sanders) aren't really radical socialists. Sanders wasn't getting on the stage demanding we nationalize all our businesses. I never heard him mention a 'vanguard party'. I don't think I heard him say, "Businesses need to be run by worker councils, exclusively". It's one thing to say, "I don't like the idea of democratic socialism/social democracies", but those ideas are hardly 'radical socialism' or 'full socialism'.
Pfhreak 6y ago
Sure, but you've also set up a strawman. > private vehicle ownership is a blight on society I didn't say this, I said that in urban areas, parking is a blight. Parking uses valuable real estate to create surface lots at worst, or space that could be used for housing at best.

jesstaa 6y ago

"consumerist capitalism is an environmental disaster" isn't a hard argument to make and people eventually realize most environmentalism is just stacking the deck chairs on the titanic.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
I can’t see how consumerist socialism is going to somehow solve all those problems. In any election these days it’s almost impossible to cast a vote for environmentalist policies without also voting for radical socialist economic policies. I’d suggest this is actually quite a problem for anybody who cares about environmentalism, because the number of people who want full socialism is way lower than the number of people who care about the environment.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Are there any candidates running on a platform of 'full socialism' or even 'radical policies'? Candidates in America, even those considered to the left of their party (e.g. Sanders) aren't really radical socialists. Sanders wasn't getting on the stage demanding we nationalize all our businesses. I never heard him mention a 'vanguard party'. I don't think I heard him say, "Businesses need to be run by worker councils, exclusively". It's one thing to say, "I don't like the idea of democratic socialism/social democracies", but those ideas are hardly 'radical socialism' or 'full socialism'.

Pfhreak 6y ago

Sure, but you've also set up a strawman. > private vehicle ownership is a blight on society I didn't say this, I said that in urban areas, parking is a blight. Parking uses valuable real estate to create surface lots at worst, or space that could be used for housing at best.