5 ms·

What makes MacOS good?

hehetrthrthrjn 6y ago
Generally good design and user-centered design (but that's being eroded with every new release) along with attention to detail. Small examples: you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active, applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking.
- koyote 6y ago
  The scrolling behaviour also exists in Windows and in Linux. I believe (if I understand what you mean correctly) that the file system behaviour is also a Linux thing. Deleting a file that is open is completely fine in Linux. I think UX between the three OSs is almost completely a matter of habit and familiarity these days. I for one can't see how anyone can be productive with the (what I believe is abysmal) window management on a Mac but millions of people like it so I'd probably get used to it if I wanted to.
  - danieldk 6y ago
    file system behaviour is also a Linux thing It's required by POSIX, so all modern UNIX-like systems have this behavior: When the file's link count becomes 0 and no process has the file open, the space occupied by the file shall be freed and the file shall no longer be accessible. If one or more processes have the file open when the last link is removed, the link shall be removed before unlink() returns, but the removal of the file contents shall be postponed until all references to the file are closed. https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/unlink.html https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/u...
  - sixbrx 6y ago
    > the file system behaviour is also a Linux thing I think the interesting part is being missed here, the behavior is that the file is being identified to apps by a uniquie identifier which is not the path, so referrering apps still find it after it's been moved, even when they didn't have it open already. More like using the inode as the identifier maybe? This is a behavior that goes all the way back through the pre-OSX macs. It was part of some sort of philosophy for Macs though I forget its name.
- rfoo 6y ago
  > you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active This works on Windows, and most sane Linux DEs are either default to that or can be configured to do that. > applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking. Do you mean they hold an opening fd of the file, which is also not special at all? Otherwise it is pretty interesting, please elaborate.
  - gsich 6y ago
    Somewhat not consistent though. But I don't know if that is the fault of the application or Windows.
  - hehetrthrthrjn 6y ago
    I only really use macOS these days, so they've clearly improved or borrowed features since I last looked, but I guess the point is that those features were implemented long ago. The ability to implement file access the way is obviously possible on any OS, but on the Mac it's consistently implemented that way in applications, except for a couple of bad actors. On other OSes it's much more mixed. The same can be said for many other small features. There's a just a lot better consistency overall on macOS.
  - e_proxus 6y ago
    > Do you mean they hold an opening fd of the file, which is also not special at all? Otherwise it is pretty interesting, please elaborate. Exactly. Special notwithstanding, it’s still a nice feature and not something Windows has to my knowledge, at least not common (i.e. “File is in use” errors). On macOS you can e.g. move a file to trash while it’s being used still by some running program.
kergonath 6y ago
UNIX with good taste and a decent UI.
- woahAcademia 6y ago
  That makes up for Apple being Apple?
  - kergonath 6y ago
    Does it make up for running on well designed hardware? Well, yes it does. That’s also irrelevant to your question I was answering (well, I know you were trolling, but anyway).
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    Don’t shift the goalposts. You can ask what makes [product] good, or what excuses [company]’s actions, but it’s not the same question.
    - eyelidlessness 6y ago
      As an example: I find Amazon to be one of the most blatantly evil large consumer facing tech companies; I hate giving them money and avoid it as much as I can often at my own expense; their consumer facing products are wildly good for most common usage scenarios and I understand why they’re successful even though I wish they weren’t.
deergomoo 6y ago
It's a *nix with real Office and Photoshop
- woahAcademia 6y ago
  I'm not following why these are related. I use Linux for dev, I use windows for office and Photoshop. None of those require macOS.
  - deergomoo 6y ago
    That's nice, I hope you enjoy your setup.
    - woahAcademia 6y ago
      Really makes you wonder how many people are just buying because of marketing and psychology tricks.
      - deergomoo 6y ago
        Or perhaps they just value different things than you? Assuming that the only reason someone might enjoy a product is because of marketing trickery is pretty elitist.
pedro596 6y ago
- Normally is attached to very good-looking and sturdy machines - You can have (..)nix like terminal in half of the screen and Office, Photoshop, and most of the shiny SW ("except games") running flawlessly in the other half without some kind of VM - The battery of this very nice machines that it comes attached to may last a day - Customization is a bit more restricted than its (..)nix cousins so most of the time it runs flawlessly even if you don't know what you're doing - It connects very well with the other device that a lot of people carry in their pockets - There are not a lot of combinations of HW + MacOs that you can run so online support tends to be very good
- woahAcademia 6y ago
  Can't really take this seriously when your first line is false.
  - MobiusHorizons 6y ago
    Would you care to elaborate? Try as I might, I have never found any laptop that is even half as sturdily built as a macbook. Yes apple plays dirty tricks that prevent inexpensive repair, but TBH, no one else produces a product that physically lasts long enough to be worth repairing by the time the board level components gives out.
    - woahAcademia 6y ago
      Butterfly keyboards. Lack of ports. That's just from memory. I'm sure Apple denies any faulty hardware as they did with their keyboards.
      - MobiusHorizons 6y ago
        Oh gotcha, I certainly agree that the keyboards were a problem, and it was not cool how Apple pretended it was a non-issue for so long. It definitely prevented me from purchasing one during the time they using those keyboards. That said, I am using one of those Macbook Pros for work, and the overall build is still very impressive. I would expect this machine to last longer physically than any of the non-mac laptops I have ever used.
andreareina 6y ago
Reason I bought a Mac way back when is that I wasn't going to go back to Windows if I could avoid it, and I needed to run Photoshop.
- woahAcademia 6y ago
  This sounds a tad irrational, but I also hate windows once every 4 years.
  - andreareina 6y ago
    That sounds a tad presumptive.
zimpenfish 6y ago
When they moved to HiDPI screens, everything worked. In contrast, when I moved my Windows 10 box to a 4K monitor, everything was unbelievably tiny until I set the system scaling to 300%. Which then broke some apps (far too large text, etc.) that I had to go through the "run in this scaling compatibility mode" debacle. Except some other apps still had small text and icons (looking at you, Chitubox!) which required the "run in this other scaling compatibility mode" finagling. Imagine having a "mature" OS where people are still dealing with this after years. (and this is just one of the pain points I get from Windows 10 every day that I don't get from macOS.)
- woahAcademia 6y ago
  So you have more pain points with Windows 10 than Apple corporation? My biggest pain are how Apple treats everyone, for the last 30 years. It's unbelievably frustrating.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    > So you have more pain points with Windows 10 than Apple corporation? Yes. Especially if you add in how Microsoft Corporation have treated people over the last 30 years too.
2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
Unix based OS where sleep and hibernate work flawlessly, decent UI, with good commercial and open source software support? Also all the hardware works? I like Linux, but it’s no where near as polished as Mac OS. Wasn’t 20 years ago. Isn’t now. Hell, I’m thinking I should just reinstall windows and use WSL2.
- woahAcademia 6y ago
  That first paragraph isn't accurate.
  - sbuk 6y ago
    > That first paragraph isn't accurate[...] "...in my opinion."

Generally good design and user-centered design (but that's being eroded with every new release) along with attention to detail. Small examples: you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active, applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking.

koyote 6y ago
The scrolling behaviour also exists in Windows and in Linux. I believe (if I understand what you mean correctly) that the file system behaviour is also a Linux thing. Deleting a file that is open is completely fine in Linux. I think UX between the three OSs is almost completely a matter of habit and familiarity these days. I for one can't see how anyone can be productive with the (what I believe is abysmal) window management on a Mac but millions of people like it so I'd probably get used to it if I wanted to.
- danieldk 6y ago
  file system behaviour is also a Linux thing It's required by POSIX, so all modern UNIX-like systems have this behavior: When the file's link count becomes 0 and no process has the file open, the space occupied by the file shall be freed and the file shall no longer be accessible. If one or more processes have the file open when the last link is removed, the link shall be removed before unlink() returns, but the removal of the file contents shall be postponed until all references to the file are closed. https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/unlink.html https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/u...
- sixbrx 6y ago
  > the file system behaviour is also a Linux thing I think the interesting part is being missed here, the behavior is that the file is being identified to apps by a uniquie identifier which is not the path, so referrering apps still find it after it's been moved, even when they didn't have it open already. More like using the inode as the identifier maybe? This is a behavior that goes all the way back through the pre-OSX macs. It was part of some sort of philosophy for Macs though I forget its name.
rfoo 6y ago
> you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active This works on Windows, and most sane Linux DEs are either default to that or can be configured to do that. > applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking. Do you mean they hold an opening fd of the file, which is also not special at all? Otherwise it is pretty interesting, please elaborate.
- gsich 6y ago
  Somewhat not consistent though. But I don't know if that is the fault of the application or Windows.
- hehetrthrthrjn 6y ago
  I only really use macOS these days, so they've clearly improved or borrowed features since I last looked, but I guess the point is that those features were implemented long ago. The ability to implement file access the way is obviously possible on any OS, but on the Mac it's consistently implemented that way in applications, except for a couple of bad actors. On other OSes it's much more mixed. The same can be said for many other small features. There's a just a lot better consistency overall on macOS.
- e_proxus 6y ago
  > Do you mean they hold an opening fd of the file, which is also not special at all? Otherwise it is pretty interesting, please elaborate. Exactly. Special notwithstanding, it’s still a nice feature and not something Windows has to my knowledge, at least not common (i.e. “File is in use” errors). On macOS you can e.g. move a file to trash while it’s being used still by some running program.

kergonath 6y ago

UNIX with good taste and a decent UI.

woahAcademia 6y ago
That makes up for Apple being Apple?
- kergonath 6y ago
  Does it make up for running on well designed hardware? Well, yes it does. That’s also irrelevant to your question I was answering (well, I know you were trolling, but anyway).
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Don’t shift the goalposts. You can ask what makes [product] good, or what excuses [company]’s actions, but it’s not the same question.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    As an example: I find Amazon to be one of the most blatantly evil large consumer facing tech companies; I hate giving them money and avoid it as much as I can often at my own expense; their consumer facing products are wildly good for most common usage scenarios and I understand why they’re successful even though I wish they weren’t.

deergomoo 6y ago

It's a *nix with real Office and Photoshop

woahAcademia 6y ago
I'm not following why these are related. I use Linux for dev, I use windows for office and Photoshop. None of those require macOS.
- deergomoo 6y ago
  That's nice, I hope you enjoy your setup.
  - woahAcademia 6y ago
    Really makes you wonder how many people are just buying because of marketing and psychology tricks.
    - deergomoo 6y ago
      Or perhaps they just value different things than you? Assuming that the only reason someone might enjoy a product is because of marketing trickery is pretty elitist.

pedro596 6y ago

- Normally is attached to very good-looking and sturdy machines - You can have (..)nix like terminal in half of the screen and Office, Photoshop, and most of the shiny SW ("except games") running flawlessly in the other half without some kind of VM - The battery of this very nice machines that it comes attached to may last a day - Customization is a bit more restricted than its (..)nix cousins so most of the time it runs flawlessly even if you don't know what you're doing - It connects very well with the other device that a lot of people carry in their pockets - There are not a lot of combinations of HW + MacOs that you can run so online support tends to be very good

woahAcademia 6y ago
Can't really take this seriously when your first line is false.
- MobiusHorizons 6y ago
  Would you care to elaborate? Try as I might, I have never found any laptop that is even half as sturdily built as a macbook. Yes apple plays dirty tricks that prevent inexpensive repair, but TBH, no one else produces a product that physically lasts long enough to be worth repairing by the time the board level components gives out.
  - woahAcademia 6y ago
    Butterfly keyboards. Lack of ports. That's just from memory. I'm sure Apple denies any faulty hardware as they did with their keyboards.
    - MobiusHorizons 6y ago
      Oh gotcha, I certainly agree that the keyboards were a problem, and it was not cool how Apple pretended it was a non-issue for so long. It definitely prevented me from purchasing one during the time they using those keyboards. That said, I am using one of those Macbook Pros for work, and the overall build is still very impressive. I would expect this machine to last longer physically than any of the non-mac laptops I have ever used.

andreareina 6y ago

Reason I bought a Mac way back when is that I wasn't going to go back to Windows if I could avoid it, and I needed to run Photoshop.

woahAcademia 6y ago
This sounds a tad irrational, but I also hate windows once every 4 years.
- andreareina 6y ago
  That sounds a tad presumptive.

zimpenfish 6y ago

When they moved to HiDPI screens, everything worked. In contrast, when I moved my Windows 10 box to a 4K monitor, everything was unbelievably tiny until I set the system scaling to 300%. Which then broke some apps (far too large text, etc.) that I had to go through the "run in this scaling compatibility mode" debacle. Except some other apps still had small text and icons (looking at you, Chitubox!) which required the "run in this other scaling compatibility mode" finagling. Imagine having a "mature" OS where people are still dealing with this after years. (and this is just one of the pain points I get from Windows 10 every day that I don't get from macOS.)

woahAcademia 6y ago
So you have more pain points with Windows 10 than Apple corporation? My biggest pain are how Apple treats everyone, for the last 30 years. It's unbelievably frustrating.
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  > So you have more pain points with Windows 10 than Apple corporation? Yes. Especially if you add in how Microsoft Corporation have treated people over the last 30 years too.

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago

Unix based OS where sleep and hibernate work flawlessly, decent UI, with good commercial and open source software support? Also all the hardware works? I like Linux, but it’s no where near as polished as Mac OS. Wasn’t 20 years ago. Isn’t now. Hell, I’m thinking I should just reinstall windows and use WSL2.

woahAcademia 6y ago
That first paragraph isn't accurate.
- sbuk 6y ago
  > That first paragraph isn't accurate[...] "...in my opinion."