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I’m American, my wife is Japanese, we have a young half daughter. (I also studied Japanese in college and lived here, so it would be a good culture fit for myse

I’m American, my wife is Japanese, we have a young half daughter. (I also studied Japanese in college and lived here, so it would be a good culture fit for myself.) When I’ve broadly looked into working in Japan the pay seems to be better for foreign companies than domestic ones. But on the whole, I think the job opportunities are less. A large foreign company like say Google or an international bank will pay more competitive wages than a domestic company. While startups likely have more variability in pay the same pattern holds. I’ve seen ranges senior devs that are for approx $70k USD. That’s a huge pay cut for someone coming from the US. If you were teaching English in Japan that would be a huge step up however. Similarly culture will be better for a foreign company than a domestic one — hours, overtime, company politics, etc. Your language ability would also be a critical factor. Consequently, for me, it seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan. Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity.

mikeomoto 6y ago
> Seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan There's another school of thought here; there's actually a lot of value that you could bring by emphasizing the fact that you can act as a bridge between foreign engineers and japanese ones.
ehnto 6y ago
> Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity. They exist, but you don't just get free reign to work wherever you want. Most countries tax systems are not well equipped to handle international income, so you have to figure that out for every country you stay in, or try to fly under the radar and potentially commit a felony in a foreign country. It's getting better though, with some countries starting to offer specific visas and tax options for digital nomad style living.
- suyash 6y ago
  yes, most companies that allow remote work pay according to cost of living
  - ornornor 6y ago
    Which is ridiculous. The value of the software produced doesn’t depend on where the code was written.
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      Er. Yes, but in SV for example: - housing is literally 4x or 5x or even 10x the pricing elsewhere in the US. Rent is easily in that category too. - food, fuel for your car, electricity, and literally everything including haircuts is more expensive there. Often, several times more expensive. Pay = base needs + retirement savings + extra money for lifestyle/fun + bonus for skill set If base needs + retirement needs + lifestyle/fun costs go up/down, then of course pay will go up/down. Yes, 'skill set' remains static. Unless, of course, there is a surplus in one area (people not willing to move), and a shortage in another. In that case, yup.. guess what! That commodity becomes more valuable. I'm not sure why many people find all of the above confusing.
      - ornornor 6y ago
        What I mean is that if a company can get its software made in SF where office rent and salaries are ridiculously high and still be profitable, it means that the product they make (software in that case) delivers tons of value. With that observation, whether the software is made in SF for one unit of cost or in a cheaper place for 1/4 unit of cost, the company sells it for the same amount and it’s profitable. Ergo, software produced anywhere yields the same amount of money to the company. So why should people get paid less no matter where they live if they produce the same output for the company? Isnt that unfair?
        bbarnett 6y ago
        No, not even slightly.
pmiller2 6y ago
What is the buying power equivalent of however many yen $70k USD is? Is that enough to have an acceptable lifestyle? I understand that the Japanese housing market is drastically different from the US, such that rent is a much lower proportion of one's total income in Japan than is typical in the US. Does that translate into $70k being a good salary, relatively speaking, in Japan?
- tasogare 6y ago
  > Is that enough to have an acceptable lifestyle? I’m always baffled by this kind of comments. The world isn’t made of SV engineers making 300K$/year, living in appartment with 5K appartment and buying 40$ sandwiches. Sure, most places and jobs are paying less, but cost of living is also lower. In Japan for instance eating out is cheap compared to Europe. Healthcare is accessible too. Cooking can help saving money too. Heck, I’m living (alone) fine with $16K/year (yes, per year) in one of the biggest Japanese city and I still can go to parties, buy video games, travel abroad while saving some money.
  - acchow 6y ago
    SF is not the most expensive place in the world (by far not) so gp was asking if Japan is high COL or not. Seems a fair question to me.
    - tasogare 6y ago
      He asked that in the "aren’t you all living in the streets of Japan with so few money?" in a humble-bragging tone that is quite common here when speaking of wages in an international context. And my reply is clear: yes it’s more than doable if living alone. I won’t speak for people who have families, it may be harder, but none of my foreign friends working here ever complained about their salaries.
      - benrbray 6y ago
        fwiw I didn't interpret it that way
therwe234234 6y ago
> I’ve seen ranges senior devs that are for approx $70k USD. That’s a huge pay cut for someone coming from the US. If you were teaching English in Japan that would be a huge step up however. For comparison, an L5-L6 at Amazon or the equivalent would make something similar in India. Japan for some reason hasn't valued Software as much as Hardware (a race it's also losing), despite having successes with the Playstation etc.
- AlphaSite 6y ago
  PlayStation is basically run out of Sony US at this point iirc.
franciscop 6y ago
I'd say $60k-$80k are for mid-level in Japan (US "senior") and $80-$100k are for senior in Japan (US "staff"-"principal"). In Japan you don't consider someone senior after 3-4 years working. Most of my mid-level dev friends working locally make in the $60k-$80k range, and I know 3 senior devs making $100k+ (I work for a US startup so I am excluding myself). The longest open jobs in public boards are unsurprisingly those devs don't want because they pay too little. So if you try to estimate pay based on those boards I'd say you are under-estimating it.
unscaled 6y ago
7-8M yen is perhaps a good estimate for a foreign software developer salary, but it is really more about the company that you'll be working with than the market. There is a huge pay gap between small PHP shops paying 4M per year on a yearly contract, and companies like Google or Indeed which sometimes pay over 20M for very senior engineers. Japan is still a buyer's market, and companies are constantly looking for engineers. It's all a matter of applying to high-paying company[1] and passing their interview. Granted, the competition for these companies is much higher, but the competition for software talent is also high. If you can get a 15M/y salary at one of the top paying companies, you can have quite a good life in Tokyo. There is a certain fantasy of unattainable Tokyo that is perpetuated by expatriate cost of living rankings like Mercer's[1]. An American expat relocated on company expense looking to match their standard of living with a spacious 100 square meter apartment in a classy neighborhood in central Tokyo (like Roppongi or Azabu) is will go north of 400k yen per month, which is not much cheaper than what it would be in SF, I guess. If you go ahead and make sure it is fitted to US standards - with space for dish washer and standalone clothes dryer, built-in oven, and a bedroom which can fit a king-size bed - you can very well end up with a 800k per month. But considering Tokyo's amazing public transportation system, you don't need to - and usually don't want to - live in central Tokyo. You can go to a station that's 10 minutes away by train from Shibuya or Shinjuku and pay half the price for a larger apartment or even a standalone house - or alternatively get tiny studio apartment for 60k per month. [1] https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-japan-the-ultimate-guide https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-ja...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

mikeomoto 6y ago

> Seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan There's another school of thought here; there's actually a lot of value that you could bring by emphasizing the fact that you can act as a bridge between foreign engineers and japanese ones.

ehnto 6y ago

> Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity. They exist, but you don't just get free reign to work wherever you want. Most countries tax systems are not well equipped to handle international income, so you have to figure that out for every country you stay in, or try to fly under the radar and potentially commit a felony in a foreign country. It's getting better though, with some countries starting to offer specific visas and tax options for digital nomad style living.

suyash 6y ago
yes, most companies that allow remote work pay according to cost of living
- ornornor 6y ago
  Which is ridiculous. The value of the software produced doesn’t depend on where the code was written.
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    Er. Yes, but in SV for example: - housing is literally 4x or 5x or even 10x the pricing elsewhere in the US. Rent is easily in that category too. - food, fuel for your car, electricity, and literally everything including haircuts is more expensive there. Often, several times more expensive. Pay = base needs + retirement savings + extra money for lifestyle/fun + bonus for skill set If base needs + retirement needs + lifestyle/fun costs go up/down, then of course pay will go up/down. Yes, 'skill set' remains static. Unless, of course, there is a surplus in one area (people not willing to move), and a shortage in another. In that case, yup.. guess what! That commodity becomes more valuable. I'm not sure why many people find all of the above confusing.
    - ornornor 6y ago
      What I mean is that if a company can get its software made in SF where office rent and salaries are ridiculously high and still be profitable, it means that the product they make (software in that case) delivers tons of value. With that observation, whether the software is made in SF for one unit of cost or in a cheaper place for 1/4 unit of cost, the company sells it for the same amount and it’s profitable. Ergo, software produced anywhere yields the same amount of money to the company. So why should people get paid less no matter where they live if they produce the same output for the company? Isnt that unfair?
      - bbarnett 6y ago
        No, not even slightly.

pmiller2 6y ago

What is the buying power equivalent of however many yen $70k USD is? Is that enough to have an acceptable lifestyle? I understand that the Japanese housing market is drastically different from the US, such that rent is a much lower proportion of one's total income in Japan than is typical in the US. Does that translate into $70k being a good salary, relatively speaking, in Japan?

tasogare 6y ago
> Is that enough to have an acceptable lifestyle? I’m always baffled by this kind of comments. The world isn’t made of SV engineers making 300K$/year, living in appartment with 5K appartment and buying 40$ sandwiches. Sure, most places and jobs are paying less, but cost of living is also lower. In Japan for instance eating out is cheap compared to Europe. Healthcare is accessible too. Cooking can help saving money too. Heck, I’m living (alone) fine with $16K/year (yes, per year) in one of the biggest Japanese city and I still can go to parties, buy video games, travel abroad while saving some money.
- acchow 6y ago
  SF is not the most expensive place in the world (by far not) so gp was asking if Japan is high COL or not. Seems a fair question to me.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    He asked that in the "aren’t you all living in the streets of Japan with so few money?" in a humble-bragging tone that is quite common here when speaking of wages in an international context. And my reply is clear: yes it’s more than doable if living alone. I won’t speak for people who have families, it may be harder, but none of my foreign friends working here ever complained about their salaries.
    - benrbray 6y ago
      fwiw I didn't interpret it that way

therwe234234 6y ago

> I’ve seen ranges senior devs that are for approx $70k USD. That’s a huge pay cut for someone coming from the US. If you were teaching English in Japan that would be a huge step up however. For comparison, an L5-L6 at Amazon or the equivalent would make something similar in India. Japan for some reason hasn't valued Software as much as Hardware (a race it's also losing), despite having successes with the Playstation etc.

AlphaSite 6y ago
PlayStation is basically run out of Sony US at this point iirc.

franciscop 6y ago

I'd say $60k-$80k are for mid-level in Japan (US "senior") and $80-$100k are for senior in Japan (US "staff"-"principal"). In Japan you don't consider someone senior after 3-4 years working. Most of my mid-level dev friends working locally make in the $60k-$80k range, and I know 3 senior devs making $100k+ (I work for a US startup so I am excluding myself). The longest open jobs in public boards are unsurprisingly those devs don't want because they pay too little. So if you try to estimate pay based on those boards I'd say you are under-estimating it.

unscaled 6y ago

7-8M yen is perhaps a good estimate for a foreign software developer salary, but it is really more about the company that you'll be working with than the market. There is a huge pay gap between small PHP shops paying 4M per year on a yearly contract, and companies like Google or Indeed which sometimes pay over 20M for very senior engineers. Japan is still a buyer's market, and companies are constantly looking for engineers. It's all a matter of applying to high-paying company[1] and passing their interview. Granted, the competition for these companies is much higher, but the competition for software talent is also high. If you can get a 15M/y salary at one of the top paying companies, you can have quite a good life in Tokyo. There is a certain fantasy of unattainable Tokyo that is perpetuated by expatriate cost of living rankings like Mercer's[1]. An American expat relocated on company expense looking to match their standard of living with a spacious 100 square meter apartment in a classy neighborhood in central Tokyo (like Roppongi or Azabu) is will go north of 400k yen per month, which is not much cheaper than what it would be in SF, I guess. If you go ahead and make sure it is fitted to US standards - with space for dish washer and standalone clothes dryer, built-in oven, and a bedroom which can fit a king-size bed - you can very well end up with a 800k per month. But considering Tokyo's amazing public transportation system, you don't need to - and usually don't want to - live in central Tokyo. You can go to a station that's 10 minutes away by train from Shibuya or Shinjuku and pay half the price for a larger apartment or even a standalone house - or alternatively get tiny studio apartment for 60k per month. [1] https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-japan-the-ultimate-guide https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-ja...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]