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I think that's probably the way to go if a business wants to tackle the problem of a useful home robot in the next decade. I totally agree with your point about

I think that's probably the way to go if a business wants to tackle the problem of a useful home robot in the next decade. I totally agree with your point about home developers being forward-looking and designing homes with robots in mind. That said, I don't relish the idea of my oven or toaster being internet-connected (https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/11/25/1910244/aws-outage-has-taken-down-a-big-chunk-of-the-internet https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/11/25/1910244/aws-outage-...). I also think it's good to also think long term beyond what is immediately feasible or commercially viable. Personally, as someone who enjoys the sci-fi movie Blade Runner, I would much prefer to see a robotic android being "more human than human", than having to compromise in the design of homes.

WJW 6y ago
It doesn't have to be a compromise in the design of the home. Almost nobody thinks of the inclusion of electrical wiring and sewer piping into modern houses as a compromise, even though they take up space and cost money. If there was a reasonable system for (say) a standardized robotic arm on a rail to cart itself around my house and do useful stuff that might be really nice and it can slowly grow as more appliances get adapted to the robot arm.
- ericjang 6y ago
  Humor me - what would you use such an arm for? What does the design look like? How many times a day would you use it? A lot of time in homemaking (a full time job for some people) is spent cleaning, unpacking things, and packing things away. How would such a system work?
  - WJW 6y ago
    If you'll indulge some science fiction dreams: I'd want something like the canadarm on the ISS but with ~4 segments of 50 cm each, a multipurpose gripper/vacuum/button presser attachment on one side and it'd be attached to some sort of rail system on the ceiling and/or walls. Software wise it'd be both individually programmable and have access to some sort of thingiverse equivalent with actions that others have dreamed up. Otherwise it would not really need an internet connection at all, except perhaps to the local wifi to talk to other more-or-less automated systems in the same house. For applications, some of the ideas I had while typing the rest of this comment: - If there is a package outside the door, open the door, pull the package inside, close the door again. - If the mail has been delivered (for houses that have a front door with a mail slot in them), use the vacuum attachment to pick up the mail and deliver it to a central location (desk? dinner table? kitchen?) - If the dishwasher is done, use universal gripper to pull it open, open the closet and put the dishes away. (Or into a drying rack, whatever). - For most people I know the washing machine for dirty laundry is someplace away from the bedroom. I don't think it'd be reasonable with current tech to expect robot folding of clothing but at least it could pick up dirty laundry from various places where it's collected and bring it to the washing machine so people only have to come in and turn the machine on. - Depending on how good the gripper is and how well adapted my coffee machine is to it, perhaps it could pick up a coffee capsule and prepare it while I'm in the shower. - Once per day it would make a round around all the bathrooms and refill the spare toilet paper roll holder if there is only one roll left. - Maybe it could wipe down sinks and stuff regularly too. All in all, it'd be useful several times per day I think. Not doing anything I couldn't do myself but definitely taking care of various simple chores throughout the day. It would need pretty good sensor coverage as well of course. Finally, I realize that with current tech this would be prohibitively expensive.
    - ericjang 6y ago
      Something like this? https://www.theburnin.com/technology/toyota-ceiling-mounted-robotic-butler-2020-10-03/ https://www.theburnin.com/technology/toyota-ceiling-mounted-... Thanks for enumerating the use cases. They are fun to think about. I wanted to dive into the first application you mentioned. As mentioned in my post, even the most basic manipulation tasks on human-centric objects and spaces are actually full of little details. I hope people think more on that low-level dextrous manipulation when designing robot hardware rather than the fairly high level "open door, pull package inside, close the door", which might make robotics people receptive to the idea that a humanoid is truly the only viable solution. What if your door has a step down to the porch where the package is delivered? The robot can't "just" pull a large box inside, it would get stuck. You'd need to lift it up, and at this point you'd require two arms or a gantry that can extend outside of the home above the porch. Obviously the home can be re-designed around this, but my point is that there are really two kinds of robotics - ones that try to solve a human problem, and ones that try to do everything a human can.
    - pontifier 6y ago
      My vision for a helper robot is much simpler. I want a magic wand (laser pointer) that I can use to cast spells (issue commands) on anything around me. If I tell the toy on the floor to put itself away (point laser, issue command 3) then it will put itself on the shelf where it belongs.(robot arm moves object to next empty buffer location on shelf).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

WJW 6y ago

It doesn't have to be a compromise in the design of the home. Almost nobody thinks of the inclusion of electrical wiring and sewer piping into modern houses as a compromise, even though they take up space and cost money. If there was a reasonable system for (say) a standardized robotic arm on a rail to cart itself around my house and do useful stuff that might be really nice and it can slowly grow as more appliances get adapted to the robot arm.

ericjang 6y ago
Humor me - what would you use such an arm for? What does the design look like? How many times a day would you use it? A lot of time in homemaking (a full time job for some people) is spent cleaning, unpacking things, and packing things away. How would such a system work?
- WJW 6y ago
  If you'll indulge some science fiction dreams: I'd want something like the canadarm on the ISS but with ~4 segments of 50 cm each, a multipurpose gripper/vacuum/button presser attachment on one side and it'd be attached to some sort of rail system on the ceiling and/or walls. Software wise it'd be both individually programmable and have access to some sort of thingiverse equivalent with actions that others have dreamed up. Otherwise it would not really need an internet connection at all, except perhaps to the local wifi to talk to other more-or-less automated systems in the same house. For applications, some of the ideas I had while typing the rest of this comment: - If there is a package outside the door, open the door, pull the package inside, close the door again. - If the mail has been delivered (for houses that have a front door with a mail slot in them), use the vacuum attachment to pick up the mail and deliver it to a central location (desk? dinner table? kitchen?) - If the dishwasher is done, use universal gripper to pull it open, open the closet and put the dishes away. (Or into a drying rack, whatever). - For most people I know the washing machine for dirty laundry is someplace away from the bedroom. I don't think it'd be reasonable with current tech to expect robot folding of clothing but at least it could pick up dirty laundry from various places where it's collected and bring it to the washing machine so people only have to come in and turn the machine on. - Depending on how good the gripper is and how well adapted my coffee machine is to it, perhaps it could pick up a coffee capsule and prepare it while I'm in the shower. - Once per day it would make a round around all the bathrooms and refill the spare toilet paper roll holder if there is only one roll left. - Maybe it could wipe down sinks and stuff regularly too. All in all, it'd be useful several times per day I think. Not doing anything I couldn't do myself but definitely taking care of various simple chores throughout the day. It would need pretty good sensor coverage as well of course. Finally, I realize that with current tech this would be prohibitively expensive.
  - ericjang 6y ago
    Something like this? https://www.theburnin.com/technology/toyota-ceiling-mounted-robotic-butler-2020-10-03/ https://www.theburnin.com/technology/toyota-ceiling-mounted-... Thanks for enumerating the use cases. They are fun to think about. I wanted to dive into the first application you mentioned. As mentioned in my post, even the most basic manipulation tasks on human-centric objects and spaces are actually full of little details. I hope people think more on that low-level dextrous manipulation when designing robot hardware rather than the fairly high level "open door, pull package inside, close the door", which might make robotics people receptive to the idea that a humanoid is truly the only viable solution. What if your door has a step down to the porch where the package is delivered? The robot can't "just" pull a large box inside, it would get stuck. You'd need to lift it up, and at this point you'd require two arms or a gantry that can extend outside of the home above the porch. Obviously the home can be re-designed around this, but my point is that there are really two kinds of robotics - ones that try to solve a human problem, and ones that try to do everything a human can.
  - pontifier 6y ago
    My vision for a helper robot is much simpler. I want a magic wand (laser pointer) that I can use to cast spells (issue commands) on anything around me. If I tell the toy on the floor to put itself away (point laser, issue command 3) then it will put itself on the shelf where it belongs.(robot arm moves object to next empty buffer location on shelf).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]