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Kubernetes "builds upon" Google's "experience," but it isn't what Google runs and doesn't totally reflect what Google actually does: https://twitter.com/copyco

by geofft 6y ago

Kubernetes "builds upon" Google's "experience," but it isn't what Google runs and doesn't totally reflect what Google actually does: https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1253968037579030532 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1253968037579030532 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1254273432847446016 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1254273432847446016 If you happen to have the problems Kubernetes solves, it's great. But even Google doesn't have exactly those problems. (And there is a huge difference between setting up Kubernetes and hosting Kubernetes. If you know how to sit in a chair, you can be in a plane's pilot seat just fine, but piloting is an entirely different skill.)

joana035 6y ago
Correct, kubernetes is a destilation of those 15 years of experience acquired running something else that also has network, storage and compute concepts. I didn't said Google uses kubernetes, though :) Still, kubernetes makes a wonderful job abstracting all the hard work of using the underlying tools. Look how simple is to create a ipvs round-robin by just defining a "kind: Service" object, try to do the same using the bare tools in a way that is synchronized across N computers.
- gabereiser 6y ago
  I would argue it doesn’t go far enough, especially in networking/discovery. Kubernetes is incredibly useful but I personally want more out of the box than just abstractions over existing linux technologies.
  - joana035 6y ago
    Networking just works. Discovery via DNS is pretty standard too. Mind to elaborate on what you would like to see in those areas?
    - gabereiser 6y ago
      I don’t know enough about kubernetes networking to really give it a thought. That’s my issue, it’s kinda a really grey area. I just don’t know enough about it to be able to judge what I’m missing. Does that make sense? That’s why I want to see more. Discovery over DNS suffers from the TTL issue right? You’re basically dos’ing yourself with DNS updates?
jeffbee 6y ago
I don't think "lessons learned from Borg" is necessarily a recipe for success. Omega was also supposed to be lessons learned from Borg, but it actually sucked and never launched, with only a few bits of Omega getting cherry-picked back into Borg. Also, I would disregard the "moving toward" in that post. Borg has always had mutable container limits, for 10+ years (Large-scale cluster management at Google with Borg, §5.5).

by geofft 6y ago

joana035 6y ago

Correct, kubernetes is a destilation of those 15 years of experience acquired running something else that also has network, storage and compute concepts. I didn't said Google uses kubernetes, though :) Still, kubernetes makes a wonderful job abstracting all the hard work of using the underlying tools. Look how simple is to create a ipvs round-robin by just defining a "kind: Service" object, try to do the same using the bare tools in a way that is synchronized across N computers.

gabereiser 6y ago
I would argue it doesn’t go far enough, especially in networking/discovery. Kubernetes is incredibly useful but I personally want more out of the box than just abstractions over existing linux technologies.
- joana035 6y ago
  Networking just works. Discovery via DNS is pretty standard too. Mind to elaborate on what you would like to see in those areas?
  - gabereiser 6y ago
    I don’t know enough about kubernetes networking to really give it a thought. That’s my issue, it’s kinda a really grey area. I just don’t know enough about it to be able to judge what I’m missing. Does that make sense? That’s why I want to see more. Discovery over DNS suffers from the TTL issue right? You’re basically dos’ing yourself with DNS updates?

jeffbee 6y ago

I don't think "lessons learned from Borg" is necessarily a recipe for success. Omega was also supposed to be lessons learned from Borg, but it actually sucked and never launched, with only a few bits of Omega getting cherry-picked back into Borg. Also, I would disregard the "moving toward" in that post. Borg has always had mutable container limits, for 10+ years (Large-scale cluster management at Google with Borg, §5.5).