6 ms·

No. It is largely irrelevant to what the person's point was because they weren't really asking why America was founded. I am sure you will quote it verbatim and

No. It is largely irrelevant to what the person's point was because they weren't really asking why America was founded. I am sure you will quote it verbatim and say "it says exactly those words" while ignoring the actual intent.

pmiller2 6y ago
How else am I to interpret this, then? > Absolutely ridiculous - do Americans even know why the country was even founded anymore? This statement was made to suggest that America has gotten away from the reasons it was founded. It is entirely reasonable to discuss the historical reasons for the founding of America, which included the desire of white property owners to be guaranteed "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," without interference from their government. Oh, and they kinda didn't want to pay taxes without representation, either. Yes, I am massively oversimplifying it here. But, I don't want to sit here and write a draft of the book that it would take to actually cover the subject with sufficient detail and nuance.
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  > How else am I to interpret this, then? People are simply expressing that a police state is scary and those that work for the police state are working against the interests of their citizens and the ethos of the nation. Whether or not that was the original intention of your founders is irrelevant.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    The point is that the “ethos of the nation” is, and has always been, authoritarian hegemony — and the intent of the founders in particular was one of the more totalitarian versions of it.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    As an American, I would consider that highly relevant. Since you use the phrasing "your founders," I would suggest you have no standing to say otherwise.
    - forest_dweller 6y ago
      Firstly you don't get to tell me what I can and can't consider and what I happen to think is relevant. As for what is relevant, I was talking about the relevance to this particular discussion nor the wider implications. It was pretty obvious to me what was meant, but at this point it is pretty obvious people want to make it about something else.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        Unless you live in America, yes, I do. Stick to your own house. And, maybe learn to read what people actually write, rather than putting your own spin on it. It was clear to me what was meant as well, and you didn't get it.
        forest_dweller 6y ago
        > Unless you live in America, yes, I do. No you don't and you can't do a damn thing about it. So do us a favour and get off your high horse. > And, maybe learn to read what people actually write, rather than putting your own spin on it. I frequently steelman the other side. So that isn't fair at all. > It was clear to me what was meant as well, and you didn't get it. I did get it. You want to make it about something else. Not everything that is said is literal. It is pretty obvious to me that others want to put their own spin on it. Contrary to what you believe, acting as high handed won't convince me of anything.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        I don't care if you're convinced of anything by me. You're obviously convinced of whatever ignorant beliefs you have about the US, already. That alone disqualifies you to talk about the origins of my country. Now, run along and spread your mistaken beliefs to someone who cares. I don't care what you think about the US, because I live here, an, you, apparently don't. You have authority to speak about the history of my country, or what its become, until you've lived it. Oh, I'd consider brushing up on your reading skills, too. You clearly comprehend nothing that's going on in this thread, so stop pushing your distorted, delusional narrative. It doesn't play well here among actual Americans. Maybe there's a reason for that.

pmiller2 6y ago

How else am I to interpret this, then? > Absolutely ridiculous - do Americans even know why the country was even founded anymore? This statement was made to suggest that America has gotten away from the reasons it was founded. It is entirely reasonable to discuss the historical reasons for the founding of America, which included the desire of white property owners to be guaranteed "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," without interference from their government. Oh, and they kinda didn't want to pay taxes without representation, either. Yes, I am massively oversimplifying it here. But, I don't want to sit here and write a draft of the book that it would take to actually cover the subject with sufficient detail and nuance.

forest_dweller 6y ago
> How else am I to interpret this, then? People are simply expressing that a police state is scary and those that work for the police state are working against the interests of their citizens and the ethos of the nation. Whether or not that was the original intention of your founders is irrelevant.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  The point is that the “ethos of the nation” is, and has always been, authoritarian hegemony — and the intent of the founders in particular was one of the more totalitarian versions of it.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  As an American, I would consider that highly relevant. Since you use the phrasing "your founders," I would suggest you have no standing to say otherwise.
  - forest_dweller 6y ago
    Firstly you don't get to tell me what I can and can't consider and what I happen to think is relevant. As for what is relevant, I was talking about the relevance to this particular discussion nor the wider implications. It was pretty obvious to me what was meant, but at this point it is pretty obvious people want to make it about something else.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      Unless you live in America, yes, I do. Stick to your own house. And, maybe learn to read what people actually write, rather than putting your own spin on it. It was clear to me what was meant as well, and you didn't get it.
      - forest_dweller 6y ago
        > Unless you live in America, yes, I do. No you don't and you can't do a damn thing about it. So do us a favour and get off your high horse. > And, maybe learn to read what people actually write, rather than putting your own spin on it. I frequently steelman the other side. So that isn't fair at all. > It was clear to me what was meant as well, and you didn't get it. I did get it. You want to make it about something else. Not everything that is said is literal. It is pretty obvious to me that others want to put their own spin on it. Contrary to what you believe, acting as high handed won't convince me of anything.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        I don't care if you're convinced of anything by me. You're obviously convinced of whatever ignorant beliefs you have about the US, already. That alone disqualifies you to talk about the origins of my country. Now, run along and spread your mistaken beliefs to someone who cares. I don't care what you think about the US, because I live here, an, you, apparently don't. You have authority to speak about the history of my country, or what its become, until you've lived it. Oh, I'd consider brushing up on your reading skills, too. You clearly comprehend nothing that's going on in this thread, so stop pushing your distorted, delusional narrative. It doesn't play well here among actual Americans. Maybe there's a reason for that.