4 ms·

I would comment pseudo mindfulness and inexperienced meditation leads to narcissism and spiritual superiority. @OP?

0xcde4c3db 6y ago
There's a reason we don't let drug companies play the "you're holding it wrong" game. In reality the perfect patient doesn't exist, so if the statistics say that people on your drug experience an adverse outcome at significantly higher rates, it's considered a side effect of the drug. It doesn't matter if it's because the patient skipped a dose. It doesn't matter if it's because they're also obese, or alcoholic, or a PewDiePie fan. If we let the drug company explain away all of the bad outcomes as inadequate doctors and patients, then like magic, no drug would have side effects. What it comes down to is this: if N people are prescribed the drug, roughly N/M people will experience these problems. If advocates of non-drug interventions want them to be taken seriously, the same standard should apply. That goes for everything from meditation to psychotherapy to exercise. If you refuse to acknowledge the risks, why should you be entitled to recognition of the benefits?
- slolean13 6y ago
  That's a good point, but I would argue to it by saying that meditation isn't a drug or a therapy like it has been marketed to western audience.It's more like martial arts or yoga or gym you can assume! So obviously, Dunning–Kruger effect will be there! An absolute master will in turn show Imposter Syndrome maybe :) Anyway, let me give you not so brief information about the way I have understood meditation and spiritual enlightenment.Both are different, meditation is a practice, spirituality is an understanding, I call it the feeling of accepting everything but anyway I am young so don't take my word for it. Coming from Indian background I have always seen this junction of science and technology that is mostly conceptualized in west vs. local culture and traditions.I use reason and logic to understand my surrounding still I get awestruck with the way things have worked around me!!! Meditation is inherent in our culture.The first method for meditation was mentioned in a book called 'Vigyan Bhairav Tantra' in which lord Adiyogi(the first yogi/ shiva) explains how you can experience god, commenting: god is not a knowledge like most of the religion interprets but rather an experience which we all can have by practicing meditation[*it is never mentioned that that's what meditation is]. A total of 112 ways to meditate, to access the `sushma naari `on your forehead! Apparently, seventh/sixth method was used by Gautama(Buddha) to achieve enlightenment. Anyway coming back to the point,the one who practices meditation according to that teaching is the real deal, and i am not saying this in a fanatical way, it has mentioned almost all possible way of meditations. Now, a person who practice smeditation needs to follow some routine [in earlier time they used to], eg. intermittent fasting, early waking up and, few other routine which i am forgetting right now. But one needs to be disciplined while practicing this. Just like martial arts! If a person becomes narcissist and self centered just by doing it for few months/years is basically suffering from Dunning–Kruger effect!as mentioned earlier... Achieving a true spiritual existence requires a lot of practice and patience!

There's a reason we don't let drug companies play the "you're holding it wrong" game. In reality the perfect patient doesn't exist, so if the statistics say that people on your drug experience an adverse outcome at significantly higher rates, it's considered a side effect of the drug. It doesn't matter if it's because the patient skipped a dose. It doesn't matter if it's because they're also obese, or alcoholic, or a PewDiePie fan. If we let the drug company explain away all of the bad outcomes as inadequate doctors and patients, then like magic, no drug would have side effects. What it comes down to is this: if N people are prescribed the drug, roughly N/M people will experience these problems. If advocates of non-drug interventions want them to be taken seriously, the same standard should apply. That goes for everything from meditation to psychotherapy to exercise. If you refuse to acknowledge the risks, why should you be entitled to recognition of the benefits?

slolean13 6y ago
That's a good point, but I would argue to it by saying that meditation isn't a drug or a therapy like it has been marketed to western audience.It's more like martial arts or yoga or gym you can assume! So obviously, Dunning–Kruger effect will be there! An absolute master will in turn show Imposter Syndrome maybe :) Anyway, let me give you not so brief information about the way I have understood meditation and spiritual enlightenment.Both are different, meditation is a practice, spirituality is an understanding, I call it the feeling of accepting everything but anyway I am young so don't take my word for it. Coming from Indian background I have always seen this junction of science and technology that is mostly conceptualized in west vs. local culture and traditions.I use reason and logic to understand my surrounding still I get awestruck with the way things have worked around me!!! Meditation is inherent in our culture.The first method for meditation was mentioned in a book called 'Vigyan Bhairav Tantra' in which lord Adiyogi(the first yogi/ shiva) explains how you can experience god, commenting: god is not a knowledge like most of the religion interprets but rather an experience which we all can have by practicing meditation[*it is never mentioned that that's what meditation is]. A total of 112 ways to meditate, to access the `sushma naari `on your forehead! Apparently, seventh/sixth method was used by Gautama(Buddha) to achieve enlightenment. Anyway coming back to the point,the one who practices meditation according to that teaching is the real deal, and i am not saying this in a fanatical way, it has mentioned almost all possible way of meditations. Now, a person who practice smeditation needs to follow some routine [in earlier time they used to], eg. intermittent fasting, early waking up and, few other routine which i am forgetting right now. But one needs to be disciplined while practicing this. Just like martial arts! If a person becomes narcissist and self centered just by doing it for few months/years is basically suffering from Dunning–Kruger effect!as mentioned earlier... Achieving a true spiritual existence requires a lot of practice and patience!