3 ms·

Kubernetes didn't need to be rescued in the first place. If you know how to manage any Linux box, setting up kubernetes is as easy as "# apt install kubelet kub

Kubernetes didn't need to be rescued in the first place. If you know how to manage any Linux box, setting up kubernetes is as easy as "# apt install kubelet kubectl". Broadly speaking kubernetes saves time by providing an api for existing Linux technology. For example, iptables, ipvs, storage, self-healing, virtual ips, etc via yaml. Kubernetes was created to give anyone "Google like, production grade" infrastructure without the vendor lock-in of the cloud. And kubernetes on physical machines is where it shines most. EDIT: it is very easy to complain that kubernetes is complex, but try to do virtual ips with keepalived, corosync, pacemaker to understand how much time kubernetes saves by providing the same capability in a generic way which is easy to use. I have the feeling that people take kubernetes for granted without knowing how much manual work one has to go through in order to build a similar experience using the standard building blocks available. EDIT 2: straight out of kubernetes home page: "Kubernetes builds upon 15 years of experience running production workloads at Google" that is a lot of saved time just by using kubernetes.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
geofft 6y ago
Kubernetes "builds upon" Google's "experience," but it isn't what Google runs and doesn't totally reflect what Google actually does: https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1253968037579030532 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1253968037579030532 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1254273432847446016 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1254273432847446016 If you happen to have the problems Kubernetes solves, it's great. But even Google doesn't have exactly those problems. (And there is a huge difference between setting up Kubernetes and hosting Kubernetes. If you know how to sit in a chair, you can be in a plane's pilot seat just fine, but piloting is an entirely different skill.)
- joana035 6y ago
  Correct, kubernetes is a destilation of those 15 years of experience acquired running something else that also has network, storage and compute concepts. I didn't said Google uses kubernetes, though :) Still, kubernetes makes a wonderful job abstracting all the hard work of using the underlying tools. Look how simple is to create a ipvs round-robin by just defining a "kind: Service" object, try to do the same using the bare tools in a way that is synchronized across N computers.
  - gabereiser 6y ago
    I would argue it doesn’t go far enough, especially in networking/discovery. Kubernetes is incredibly useful but I personally want more out of the box than just abstractions over existing linux technologies.
    - joana035 6y ago
      Networking just works. Discovery via DNS is pretty standard too. Mind to elaborate on what you would like to see in those areas?
      - gabereiser 6y ago
        I don’t know enough about kubernetes networking to really give it a thought. That’s my issue, it’s kinda a really grey area. I just don’t know enough about it to be able to judge what I’m missing. Does that make sense? That’s why I want to see more. Discovery over DNS suffers from the TTL issue right? You’re basically dos’ing yourself with DNS updates?
- jeffbee 6y ago
  I don't think "lessons learned from Borg" is necessarily a recipe for success. Omega was also supposed to be lessons learned from Borg, but it actually sucked and never launched, with only a few bits of Omega getting cherry-picked back into Borg. Also, I would disregard the "moving toward" in that post. Borg has always had mutable container limits, for 10+ years (Large-scale cluster management at Google with Borg, §5.5).
human_error 6y ago
> setting up kubernetes is as easy as "# apt install kubelet kubectl". That's not even remotely accurate unless you run Kubernetes on AWS, Azure, GCP. > straight out of kubernetes home page: "Kubernetes builds upon 15 years of experience running production workloads at Google". Sounds like you need to read that sentence carefully. They never say they use Kubernetes. It seems to me you're a Kubernetes fanboy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

geofft 6y ago

Kubernetes "builds upon" Google's "experience," but it isn't what Google runs and doesn't totally reflect what Google actually does: https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1253968037579030532 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1253968037579030532 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1254273432847446016 https://twitter.com/copyconstruct/status/1254273432847446016 If you happen to have the problems Kubernetes solves, it's great. But even Google doesn't have exactly those problems. (And there is a huge difference between setting up Kubernetes and hosting Kubernetes. If you know how to sit in a chair, you can be in a plane's pilot seat just fine, but piloting is an entirely different skill.)

joana035 6y ago
Correct, kubernetes is a destilation of those 15 years of experience acquired running something else that also has network, storage and compute concepts. I didn't said Google uses kubernetes, though :) Still, kubernetes makes a wonderful job abstracting all the hard work of using the underlying tools. Look how simple is to create a ipvs round-robin by just defining a "kind: Service" object, try to do the same using the bare tools in a way that is synchronized across N computers.
- gabereiser 6y ago
  I would argue it doesn’t go far enough, especially in networking/discovery. Kubernetes is incredibly useful but I personally want more out of the box than just abstractions over existing linux technologies.
  - joana035 6y ago
    Networking just works. Discovery via DNS is pretty standard too. Mind to elaborate on what you would like to see in those areas?
    - gabereiser 6y ago
      I don’t know enough about kubernetes networking to really give it a thought. That’s my issue, it’s kinda a really grey area. I just don’t know enough about it to be able to judge what I’m missing. Does that make sense? That’s why I want to see more. Discovery over DNS suffers from the TTL issue right? You’re basically dos’ing yourself with DNS updates?
jeffbee 6y ago
I don't think "lessons learned from Borg" is necessarily a recipe for success. Omega was also supposed to be lessons learned from Borg, but it actually sucked and never launched, with only a few bits of Omega getting cherry-picked back into Borg. Also, I would disregard the "moving toward" in that post. Borg has always had mutable container limits, for 10+ years (Large-scale cluster management at Google with Borg, §5.5).

human_error 6y ago

> setting up kubernetes is as easy as "# apt install kubelet kubectl". That's not even remotely accurate unless you run Kubernetes on AWS, Azure, GCP. > straight out of kubernetes home page: "Kubernetes builds upon 15 years of experience running production workloads at Google". Sounds like you need to read that sentence carefully. They never say they use Kubernetes. It seems to me you're a Kubernetes fanboy.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]