6 ms·

"why isn't there as much outrage over the few dozen police killed every year as there is over the nearly 2k people killed by police?" There are roughly 20k vio

by ikeboy 6y ago

"why isn't there as much outrage over the few dozen police killed every year as there is over the nearly 2k people killed by police?" There are roughly 20k violent deaths in the US every year. Almost 10% of those are police related. That's completely unacceptable to me, having looked at the actual numbers. https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/06/65309/ https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/06/65309/ has the underlying sources and analysis here.

ganoushoreilly 6y ago
The police aren’t the causality though, they’re a component of response to crime. Crime is the issue and that will never be a 0 sum thing.
- ikeboy 6y ago
  Then why have police killings gone up despite crime going down? Also, why are police dispatched for non-violent crimes? I don't think someone with a gun and a license for violence should be sent out for any report of a non violent crime.
  - Darmody 6y ago
    Because most violent crimes start as non violent crimes. That said, American police needs better funding and better training. They need to learn how to deescalate situations.
    - ikeboy 6y ago
      Citation?
      - Darmody 6y ago
        I read it some month ago, I don't have any source right now, sorry. I remember reading it and thinking it was pretty obvious. I didn't bother saving any link. Just look at how most people act when police arrives. That's not only an American thing. Non violent crimes are still made by criminals and they don't respond very well to police presence.
  - StreamBright 6y ago
    > Then why have police killings gone up despite crime going down? Because of qualified immunity. https://qrius.com/how-does-qualified-immunity-protect-police-from-misconduct/ https://qrius.com/how-does-qualified-immunity-protect-police...
rightbyte 6y ago
So for 19 civilian killings the police kill one person? I wonder what would be a "reasonable" share given the amount of violent criminals.
- ikeboy 6y ago
  Where are you getting that from? It's 10%, i.e. roughly one police killing per 10 civilian killings. Read the article I linked and compare to other countries as well as historically.
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    Oh sorry did my math wrong. I note that the US has a quite high share police killings similar to Brazil, but that Colombia and South Africa has quite much lower. I don't know where I am heading, but the problem seems quite complex. Funny how Iceland has a quite high share ... didn't except that.
commentrix 6y ago
And how many of those could be avoided if people had acted in compliance with police orders, or had chose to not present themselves as a possible threat, or had not been breaking the law? Unfortunately I think people do not take police seriously, and then falsely blame them when something goes bad as a result of their own mistakes. People, it seems, are forgetting their personal responsibility in interactions with police, as well as pretending that police authority is some made up flexible concept they can bend at their own will. That is the mindset of a lawbreaker, that people who are now otherwise law breakers fall into the trap of, directly as a result of these fabricated narratives of "police brutality". The worst case is they try to use the law and procedure they don't act like they respect, against the police to try to get loopholes for their own bad behavior, and then cry foul when that same law and procedure is used on them, by people given the duty to do such. Unsmart. If you don't wish you be in situations where you are subject to police force, don't put yourself in such situations, and if you end up in such situations, comply with all police orders. Anything less than full and willing compliance, will raise more questions and the officers will register you as a potential threat. It's not the time to show your anti-authoritarian streak, it's not edgy or cool in that context. It doesn't prove you are strong or smart, it just proves you are stupid. Your only instinct should be legal and physical self-preservation. If you don't act in your own interests, and then blame police when things don't go your way, you'd be better off learning to blame your own stupidity. Everything here relates the present time, not the past, and to Westernized or rule of law countries, like China. If you are in a place where police are unfortunately corrupt, and likely to frame you or target you because of your background, or to extract a bribe, or as a favor to someone else, then leave those places immediately, and if you can't or won't, I don't have any advice for you. Hopefully the guidance here helps some people avoid bad consequences.

by ikeboy 6y ago

ganoushoreilly 6y ago

The police aren’t the causality though, they’re a component of response to crime. Crime is the issue and that will never be a 0 sum thing.

ikeboy 6y ago
Then why have police killings gone up despite crime going down? Also, why are police dispatched for non-violent crimes? I don't think someone with a gun and a license for violence should be sent out for any report of a non violent crime.
- Darmody 6y ago
  Because most violent crimes start as non violent crimes. That said, American police needs better funding and better training. They need to learn how to deescalate situations.
  - ikeboy 6y ago
    Citation?
    - Darmody 6y ago
      I read it some month ago, I don't have any source right now, sorry. I remember reading it and thinking it was pretty obvious. I didn't bother saving any link. Just look at how most people act when police arrives. That's not only an American thing. Non violent crimes are still made by criminals and they don't respond very well to police presence.
- StreamBright 6y ago
  > Then why have police killings gone up despite crime going down? Because of qualified immunity. https://qrius.com/how-does-qualified-immunity-protect-police-from-misconduct/ https://qrius.com/how-does-qualified-immunity-protect-police...

rightbyte 6y ago

So for 19 civilian killings the police kill one person? I wonder what would be a "reasonable" share given the amount of violent criminals.

ikeboy 6y ago
Where are you getting that from? It's 10%, i.e. roughly one police killing per 10 civilian killings. Read the article I linked and compare to other countries as well as historically.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  Oh sorry did my math wrong. I note that the US has a quite high share police killings similar to Brazil, but that Colombia and South Africa has quite much lower. I don't know where I am heading, but the problem seems quite complex. Funny how Iceland has a quite high share ... didn't except that.

commentrix 6y ago

And how many of those could be avoided if people had acted in compliance with police orders, or had chose to not present themselves as a possible threat, or had not been breaking the law? Unfortunately I think people do not take police seriously, and then falsely blame them when something goes bad as a result of their own mistakes. People, it seems, are forgetting their personal responsibility in interactions with police, as well as pretending that police authority is some made up flexible concept they can bend at their own will. That is the mindset of a lawbreaker, that people who are now otherwise law breakers fall into the trap of, directly as a result of these fabricated narratives of "police brutality". The worst case is they try to use the law and procedure they don't act like they respect, against the police to try to get loopholes for their own bad behavior, and then cry foul when that same law and procedure is used on them, by people given the duty to do such. Unsmart. If you don't wish you be in situations where you are subject to police force, don't put yourself in such situations, and if you end up in such situations, comply with all police orders. Anything less than full and willing compliance, will raise more questions and the officers will register you as a potential threat. It's not the time to show your anti-authoritarian streak, it's not edgy or cool in that context. It doesn't prove you are strong or smart, it just proves you are stupid. Your only instinct should be legal and physical self-preservation. If you don't act in your own interests, and then blame police when things don't go your way, you'd be better off learning to blame your own stupidity. Everything here relates the present time, not the past, and to Westernized or rule of law countries, like China. If you are in a place where police are unfortunately corrupt, and likely to frame you or target you because of your background, or to extract a bribe, or as a favor to someone else, then leave those places immediately, and if you can't or won't, I don't have any advice for you. Hopefully the guidance here helps some people avoid bad consequences.