4 ms·

The point here is that Apple being the arbiter of access to customer base is an unhealthy market dynamic.

sunshinerag 6y ago
As a user of Apple ecosystem, I absolutely like that Apple is the curator and arbiter for the ecosystem. I knowingly pay a premium for that.
- sumedh 6y ago
  You may like that some others wont. If they paid for the phone let them install an App directly from someone's website if they want to.
- simion314 6y ago
  >As a user of Apple ecosystem, I absolutely like that Apple is the curator and arbiter for the ecosystem. I knowingly pay a premium for that. IMO your argument is NULL, if there were alternatives like an Open source store, a Google, Microsoft and Amazon store on iOS you would not be forced to use them. Check the Android model, most people are using the Google store and the GIANT benefits is that if Google decides or is forced to not allow an application you are not screwed, you can go around that. Again, if you want to consume ONLY Apple approved content then nobody would force you to not do it, see Android.
  - simonh 6y ago
    Epic tried to go round the Play Store with Fortnite and rely on side loading, but gave up and listed on the Play Store. Then they sued Google. Their argument is precisely that not going through the Play Store screwed them commercialy. I actually agree with you on the fact that having other stores on iOS would not stop people from just sticking with the App Store. That’s true. My concern about forcing Apple to support other stores is the ‘forcing’ part. People, throw around the term ‘forcing’ companies to do this and ‘forcing’ consumers to do that very liberally in situations where nobody is forced to do anything, but this is different. Apple doesn’t want to implement the APIs, security controls and services to support third party stores. Mandating that they do so would literally be forcing them to do development and testing work, and support features they don’t want to support. Presumably such a mandate would also have to specify exactly how such features must be designed and implemented in order to be compliant, so now we’d have government specified features and UIs. To me, that seems a few steps too far.
    - simion314 6y ago
      Apple already has mechanisms in place to allow side loading so there is no new work they need f to add. People that jail-broke iOS and side load apps also prove that technically is possible. When companies do anti-competitive things they are forced by the society with laws to stop, without this kind of laws we would still have mobile phones that are locked forever to a network, still have a big tax when you call someone on a different network, still have a big tax when you would transfer to a different back or use other bank ATM(this examples are from EU not sure about other regions). For example the laws related to preventing fires also FORCE companies to add more exit doors, use the correct materials, add fire suppression equipment etc. A few years back some night club bribed the fire department and opened without respecting this laws, around 100 young people died because some greedy bastards didn't want to do the correct thing. Anyway, my comment was about the argument "I love Apple to protect me" that argument is NULL. We can attempt to debate the actual market share of Apple, to define the actual markets, to decide if Apple and Google are actually competing or have an hidden agreement, to define how we measure the damage by the market abuse (if any), to determine fixes for this abuses (if any).
  - bserge 6y ago
    While you can sideload apps on Android (last time I checked), that's not much better for developers. Most of their potential customers won't bother side loading.
    - simion314 6y ago
      Is not that great for users either since most developers link to the iOS and Google store and do not let you download the installer directly and it sucks if you have a phone that does not run the Google Play stuff and the developers are incapable of linking to the installer but on the other hand some developers complain the people are not using alternative stores.
- 627467 6y ago
  The way you phrase it sounds, to me, that you knowingly pay for OTHER (consumers) to not have a choice rather than you having the best option possible.
bserge 6y ago
Yes, well, this is the case with most big, established companies, I'd say. Only government intervention could change that.

As a user of Apple ecosystem, I absolutely like that Apple is the curator and arbiter for the ecosystem. I knowingly pay a premium for that.

sumedh 6y ago
You may like that some others wont. If they paid for the phone let them install an App directly from someone's website if they want to.
simion314 6y ago
>As a user of Apple ecosystem, I absolutely like that Apple is the curator and arbiter for the ecosystem. I knowingly pay a premium for that. IMO your argument is NULL, if there were alternatives like an Open source store, a Google, Microsoft and Amazon store on iOS you would not be forced to use them. Check the Android model, most people are using the Google store and the GIANT benefits is that if Google decides or is forced to not allow an application you are not screwed, you can go around that. Again, if you want to consume ONLY Apple approved content then nobody would force you to not do it, see Android.
- simonh 6y ago
  Epic tried to go round the Play Store with Fortnite and rely on side loading, but gave up and listed on the Play Store. Then they sued Google. Their argument is precisely that not going through the Play Store screwed them commercialy. I actually agree with you on the fact that having other stores on iOS would not stop people from just sticking with the App Store. That’s true. My concern about forcing Apple to support other stores is the ‘forcing’ part. People, throw around the term ‘forcing’ companies to do this and ‘forcing’ consumers to do that very liberally in situations where nobody is forced to do anything, but this is different. Apple doesn’t want to implement the APIs, security controls and services to support third party stores. Mandating that they do so would literally be forcing them to do development and testing work, and support features they don’t want to support. Presumably such a mandate would also have to specify exactly how such features must be designed and implemented in order to be compliant, so now we’d have government specified features and UIs. To me, that seems a few steps too far.
  - simion314 6y ago
    Apple already has mechanisms in place to allow side loading so there is no new work they need f to add. People that jail-broke iOS and side load apps also prove that technically is possible. When companies do anti-competitive things they are forced by the society with laws to stop, without this kind of laws we would still have mobile phones that are locked forever to a network, still have a big tax when you call someone on a different network, still have a big tax when you would transfer to a different back or use other bank ATM(this examples are from EU not sure about other regions). For example the laws related to preventing fires also FORCE companies to add more exit doors, use the correct materials, add fire suppression equipment etc. A few years back some night club bribed the fire department and opened without respecting this laws, around 100 young people died because some greedy bastards didn't want to do the correct thing. Anyway, my comment was about the argument "I love Apple to protect me" that argument is NULL. We can attempt to debate the actual market share of Apple, to define the actual markets, to decide if Apple and Google are actually competing or have an hidden agreement, to define how we measure the damage by the market abuse (if any), to determine fixes for this abuses (if any).
- bserge 6y ago
  While you can sideload apps on Android (last time I checked), that's not much better for developers. Most of their potential customers won't bother side loading.
  - simion314 6y ago
    Is not that great for users either since most developers link to the iOS and Google store and do not let you download the installer directly and it sucks if you have a phone that does not run the Google Play stuff and the developers are incapable of linking to the installer but on the other hand some developers complain the people are not using alternative stores.
627467 6y ago
The way you phrase it sounds, to me, that you knowingly pay for OTHER (consumers) to not have a choice rather than you having the best option possible.

bserge 6y ago

Yes, well, this is the case with most big, established companies, I'd say. Only government intervention could change that.