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The first falacy described in the article highlights how much conspiracies are faith based. Where someone deep enough in the rabbit hole believe it to such an e

by Jonnax 6y ago

The first falacy described in the article highlights how much conspiracies are faith based. Where someone deep enough in the rabbit hole believe it to such an extent that it's part of their identity. If you have a religious person, think how almost impossible it would be to convince them that their faith is a human created fiction.

rualca 6y ago
I'm not sure that religion is a good example. I mean, religion is quite openly a set of guidelines and rules that establish how a society should operate. Some religious text books use parables as rhetoric devices to show scenarios that illustrate how behaviors harm or benefit society. Thus, we don't need the supernatural to be religious. It helps, but it's not necessary.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  Yeah, plus large swaths of land have grown irreligious in relative short timespans (< 100 years), indicating that religion is pretty vulnerable in the memetic war. Even in the Islamic world the number of secret atheists is growing. [0][1][2] It is not too hard to become disillusioned in faith if you witness entire countries pulverized in the name of God. [0] https://insidearabia.com/the-rise-of-atheism-in-morocco-and-beyond-in-the-arab-world/ https://insidearabia.com/the-rise-of-atheism-in-morocco-and-... [1] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/1/atheists-in-muslim-world-growing-silent-minority/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/1/atheists-in-... [2] https://thearabweekly.com/iraqs-growing-community-atheists-no-longer-peripheral https://thearabweekly.com/iraqs-growing-community-atheists-n...
- prawn 6y ago
  The distinction from OP might've been "human created fictions"? That was my interpretation anyway. If you were all about the societal guidelines, would you find the idea that those parables were invented by humans inoffensive?
- rbanffy 6y ago
  There are religious people and then there are those who believe the Earth is 5000 years old, and that humans lived along with dinosaurs prior to the Deluge. Whatever mechanisms that enable that kind of belief were useful in our evolution, but now are an existential threat to our species.
ansible 6y ago
How do we teach adults to seek the truth? How do we get people to not share stories just because they want to believe the story is true?
waheoo 6y ago
I dunno I still firmly sit in the 9/11 was an inside job camp. I've looked to be debunked and disproven many times over the years wondering if I was just young and naive. Everytime I look I still arrive at the same outcome. I don't think this is some faith I hold. I just can't see how the "truth" actually matches with the reality I saw with my own eyes and the reality I determine byaking a judgement call about the government's actions at the time. I could actually let the twin towers go. Pentagon crash was just simply too unlikely. Doesn't help the evidence we needed was taken away and hidden never released.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  The biggest danger our minds face, and I say this to you with all the kindness, is that our minds cannot be used reliably to measure themselves individually. Seen from the inside, insanity looks sane. :-( I have a dear friend who doesn't believe we landed on the Moon. Otherwise he's highly intelligent and successful. I joked with my therapist that his job was to help me debug myself, as nobody can do it alone. We all are subject to small malfunctions. We just need to be aware of that.
  - waheoo 6y ago
    Indeed. These facts are why I so highly value my own awareness and willingness to change my mind. I'd love to have someone prove me wrong. Over the years much of 9/11 has received reasonable doubt worthy mythbusting. But at some point the arguments are just too overwhelming. To me, the "MythBusters" actually sound delusional. They're unwilling to confront evidence, and are guilty of most the things this article lists. One of the problems with this case in particular is how isolating it all is. I don't tell people I'm a truther. You learn real fast how "wrong you are" from the screeching mother's about how dare you? As if questioning the so trustworthy media narrative is somehow offensive just because people died. Yes they died, I'm disgusted by it. I'm more disgusted by the idea that the govt was behind it. But the problem with this isolation is that you can't get dissenting ideas. I have to seek out confronting views this in itself is uncomfortable. Past this, I have to wade through the myth busters jokes and jabs at my expense, being compared to moon landing hoaxers and antivaxxers. I can see how people fall into conspiracy theories and get shutout of society for it. To this day I hope I'm wrong I hope one day someone can convince me. But to this day. Nobody has, and given how much evidence is now lost or destroyed there really isn't much chance of this happening.

by Jonnax 6y ago

rualca 6y ago

I'm not sure that religion is a good example. I mean, religion is quite openly a set of guidelines and rules that establish how a society should operate. Some religious text books use parables as rhetoric devices to show scenarios that illustrate how behaviors harm or benefit society. Thus, we don't need the supernatural to be religious. It helps, but it's not necessary.

inglor_cz 6y ago
Yeah, plus large swaths of land have grown irreligious in relative short timespans (< 100 years), indicating that religion is pretty vulnerable in the memetic war. Even in the Islamic world the number of secret atheists is growing. [0][1][2] It is not too hard to become disillusioned in faith if you witness entire countries pulverized in the name of God. [0] https://insidearabia.com/the-rise-of-atheism-in-morocco-and-beyond-in-the-arab-world/ https://insidearabia.com/the-rise-of-atheism-in-morocco-and-... [1] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/1/atheists-in-muslim-world-growing-silent-minority/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/1/atheists-in-... [2] https://thearabweekly.com/iraqs-growing-community-atheists-no-longer-peripheral https://thearabweekly.com/iraqs-growing-community-atheists-n...
prawn 6y ago
The distinction from OP might've been "human created fictions"? That was my interpretation anyway. If you were all about the societal guidelines, would you find the idea that those parables were invented by humans inoffensive?
rbanffy 6y ago
There are religious people and then there are those who believe the Earth is 5000 years old, and that humans lived along with dinosaurs prior to the Deluge. Whatever mechanisms that enable that kind of belief were useful in our evolution, but now are an existential threat to our species.

ansible 6y ago

How do we teach adults to seek the truth? How do we get people to not share stories just because they want to believe the story is true?

waheoo 6y ago

I dunno I still firmly sit in the 9/11 was an inside job camp. I've looked to be debunked and disproven many times over the years wondering if I was just young and naive. Everytime I look I still arrive at the same outcome. I don't think this is some faith I hold. I just can't see how the "truth" actually matches with the reality I saw with my own eyes and the reality I determine byaking a judgement call about the government's actions at the time. I could actually let the twin towers go. Pentagon crash was just simply too unlikely. Doesn't help the evidence we needed was taken away and hidden never released.

rbanffy 6y ago
The biggest danger our minds face, and I say this to you with all the kindness, is that our minds cannot be used reliably to measure themselves individually. Seen from the inside, insanity looks sane. :-( I have a dear friend who doesn't believe we landed on the Moon. Otherwise he's highly intelligent and successful. I joked with my therapist that his job was to help me debug myself, as nobody can do it alone. We all are subject to small malfunctions. We just need to be aware of that.
- waheoo 6y ago
  Indeed. These facts are why I so highly value my own awareness and willingness to change my mind. I'd love to have someone prove me wrong. Over the years much of 9/11 has received reasonable doubt worthy mythbusting. But at some point the arguments are just too overwhelming. To me, the "MythBusters" actually sound delusional. They're unwilling to confront evidence, and are guilty of most the things this article lists. One of the problems with this case in particular is how isolating it all is. I don't tell people I'm a truther. You learn real fast how "wrong you are" from the screeching mother's about how dare you? As if questioning the so trustworthy media narrative is somehow offensive just because people died. Yes they died, I'm disgusted by it. I'm more disgusted by the idea that the govt was behind it. But the problem with this isolation is that you can't get dissenting ideas. I have to seek out confronting views this in itself is uncomfortable. Past this, I have to wade through the myth busters jokes and jabs at my expense, being compared to moon landing hoaxers and antivaxxers. I can see how people fall into conspiracy theories and get shutout of society for it. To this day I hope I'm wrong I hope one day someone can convince me. But to this day. Nobody has, and given how much evidence is now lost or destroyed there really isn't much chance of this happening.