3 ms·

I don't think I said that the feelings have to be expressed, but they're there nevertheless. You never have positive feelings towards objects? For example when

by blub 6y ago

I don't think I said that the feelings have to be expressed, but they're there nevertheless. You never have positive feelings towards objects? For example when you see a beautiful sunset, or enjoy a great tool that allows you to easily get your job done? That would be very unusual... the human internal universe is immerse in feelings, we even humanize objects sometimes. Those positive feelings are not addressed to the "nation" itself though, they're addressed to the group of people to which a person feels like they belong to, it's addressed to the culture and traditions which one feels connected to and which they enjoy with other people. Everywhere I go I see people treating their fellow citizens differently and more affectionately compared to foreigners.

inopinatus 6y ago
> when you see a beautiful sunset I don't salute a beautiful sunset, and I don't require my children to pledge allegiance to the sun; nor would I be so crass, flippant, or despotic as to suggest - as you already did with citizenship - that someone declining to offer their loyalty to the sun deserves to be denied warmth. Tossing around false equivalences doesn't make patriotism a sunny day. > Everywhere I go I see people treating their fellow citizens differently and more affectionately compared to foreigners ... If I ever need to reference a monument to unconscious bias, and to the staggering lack of self-awareness that "patriots" embody, and for a prima facie example of how structural discrimination is perpetuated even in 2020, this'll be it.
- blub 6y ago
  You seem to be hanging on to the "pledge of alliance" discussion with the other guy which wisely decided to cut their losses and stop responding :) You do realise you're talking to somebody else now, right? Somebody which merely limited themselves to discussing patriotism, which doesn't require pledges. In fact I disagree with such behavior, especially when kids are required to recite them. Such things are typically encountered in undemocratic countries and they are a form of manipulation and control. Patriotism neither requires such things, nor does it mean that those who recite such pledges are patriotic. As I've mentioned before, patriotism for me indicates positive feelings towards one's country.
  - inopinatus 6y ago
    Alas, I'm generally unwilling to concede retrospective attempts to move goalposts. I don't consider this exchange to be a dialogue. Regarding the scope of audience and participation, I see remarks from six participants. I'm aware of adjacent threads addressing related topics and angles. We have undisclosed N participants that've been variously upvoting, downvoting, flagging, and vouching comments, leaving many flagged or dead (i.e. collapsed to casual visitors). It seems to me there is no common ground on the matter between you and I, not even agreement of the parameters of discussion. A collapsed subthread whose index topic has naturally decayed from the front page lacks any prospect of additional voices, and with no opportunity I can perceive for the Hegelian dialectic to resolve otherwise, I shall break off here, and wish you (and any unseen readers that have stoically endured thus far) a good day.

by blub 6y ago

inopinatus 6y ago

> when you see a beautiful sunset I don't salute a beautiful sunset, and I don't require my children to pledge allegiance to the sun; nor would I be so crass, flippant, or despotic as to suggest - as you already did with citizenship - that someone declining to offer their loyalty to the sun deserves to be denied warmth. Tossing around false equivalences doesn't make patriotism a sunny day. > Everywhere I go I see people treating their fellow citizens differently and more affectionately compared to foreigners ... If I ever need to reference a monument to unconscious bias, and to the staggering lack of self-awareness that "patriots" embody, and for a prima facie example of how structural discrimination is perpetuated even in 2020, this'll be it.

blub 6y ago
You seem to be hanging on to the "pledge of alliance" discussion with the other guy which wisely decided to cut their losses and stop responding :) You do realise you're talking to somebody else now, right? Somebody which merely limited themselves to discussing patriotism, which doesn't require pledges. In fact I disagree with such behavior, especially when kids are required to recite them. Such things are typically encountered in undemocratic countries and they are a form of manipulation and control. Patriotism neither requires such things, nor does it mean that those who recite such pledges are patriotic. As I've mentioned before, patriotism for me indicates positive feelings towards one's country.
- inopinatus 6y ago
  Alas, I'm generally unwilling to concede retrospective attempts to move goalposts. I don't consider this exchange to be a dialogue. Regarding the scope of audience and participation, I see remarks from six participants. I'm aware of adjacent threads addressing related topics and angles. We have undisclosed N participants that've been variously upvoting, downvoting, flagging, and vouching comments, leaving many flagged or dead (i.e. collapsed to casual visitors). It seems to me there is no common ground on the matter between you and I, not even agreement of the parameters of discussion. A collapsed subthread whose index topic has naturally decayed from the front page lacks any prospect of additional voices, and with no opportunity I can perceive for the Hegelian dialectic to resolve otherwise, I shall break off here, and wish you (and any unseen readers that have stoically endured thus far) a good day.