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You do have it easy today in the USA. The USA is an absolute paradise for an immigrant. The business environment is unbelievably friendly and helpful, capital

You do have it easy today in the USA. The USA is an absolute paradise for an immigrant. The business environment is unbelievably friendly and helpful, capital is easily available. The country is filled with entrepreneurs who are incredibly supportive. There is a stable economy and system of laws. And the country is safe. These things don’t exist in most other countries. I expect nothing but contempt for my comments above from this community, particularly given how popular it is to drown oneself in self pity. But trust me that when you step off the boat in this country it is exhilarating and inspiring and the world seems filled with possibilities that never existed before. Unless you’ve lived in a corrupt country, seen hyperinflation of 1% per day first hand, experienced the increase in mental bandwidth that comes from feeling safe and the opposite, experienced tall poppy syndrome and the opposite, seen how hard it is to raise money elsewhere and raised money in the USA, you will never understand how absolutely amazing this country is. I remember when I first moved here. I was incorporating my first California corporation using a Nolo book. I called the secretary of state’s office with a question. Someone answered the phone after one ring. I thought I’d called the wrong number. I couldn’t believe how helpful and friendly they were. Doing business on other countries is very hard. This country truly is amazing. If you live here and are an entrepreneur, you’re very fortunate.

banachtarski 6y ago
Is being male and white not a factor in your analysis. Just looking statistically at the segment of the demographic which directly correlates with wealth and entrepreneurship paints a different story from your narrative.
- temporama1 6y ago
  Grow up
- kjksf 6y ago
  The article we're discussing is about a non-white Asian immigrant becoming a millionaire in U.S. by opening donut shops. He also helped a hundred+ other non-white, Asian immigrants to become small business owners. And if you ever worked in Silicon Valley as a programmer, you must have noticed how people from India and China are over-represented in that profession. Not to mention plenty of white males that are not rich and successful. Being white male is neither sufficient nor necessary for success.
- IncRnd 6y ago
  The Donut King of this article is not a while male but a Cambodian immigrant who lifted himself and his entire community up economically.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  Methinks you SEVERELY underestimate the business acumen of South and East Asians. This is actually an interesting study in internal contradictions of the woke ideology. East Asians face a lot of racism when they move to Europe / America. Racial slurs, distrust from authorities, unwillingness to rent premises etc. No doubt about that, I was a kid in the early 90s and Vietnamese in Czechoslovakia were obvious targets, unfortunately. You could see it on a daily basis back then. But that does not prevent them from growing very rich and successful. The so-called "systemic racism" somehow fails to prevent them from reaching elite status in large numbers.
jjeaff 6y ago
Now imagine all that opportunity, plus a much less competitive business environment and fewer regulations. That is what it was like 50 years ago in the US.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Also important was a much faster rate of growth in population: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/population-growth-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/popu... It’s also my opinion that the internet and use of computers and high speed communications have led to more market efficiency and less arbitrage opportunities. In decades past, an individual might have been more likely than now to notice and take advantage of an inefficiency, whereas now the bigger players have access to much more data about the market, satellite imagery, pricing and sales information, etc so that they are competing on all levels.
- homero 6y ago
  Anything went but that included building your factory next to the river and dumping in the river.
- jedrek 6y ago
  Imagine having well paid customers.
  - 9387367 6y ago
    That's communism...no...what? wait a minute!!
- refurb 6y ago
  "a much less competitive business environment" Which business environment? The competitiveness is absolutely not universal across all markets in the US. There are plenty of markets that aren't competitive at all.
  - evgen 6y ago
    I believe the point being made was that in the 50s and 60s in the US there was a large domestic market that had almost no foreign competitors (either they were still rebuilding form WW2 rubble or were way behind US tech) and those same foreign markets were mostly open for US exports. In a lot of industries there was probably a good foreign competitor at the top-end, a few low-end foreign companies, but the vast middle of the market was exclusively owned by US companies for at least two decades.
Donckele 6y ago
Thanks for the positive comment! Could you say more about your background and experiences as an immigrant stepping off the boat?
markdown 6y ago
> These things don’t exist in most other countries. American exceptionalism eh?
- kjksf 6y ago
  The guy who wrote it is not an American and it's a fact that e.g. opening a business in U.S. is easier and cheaper than in most other countries.
  - jedrek 6y ago
    They’re not an American but they’re also not from “other countries”, but from one specific country. None of the 27 countries of the EU have that level of corruption or hyperinflation either. My country has an absolutely horrible reputation for business and somehow I’ve had mine for almost 9 years without much bother.
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    It took me €80 in cash and an afternoon to incorporate a liability limited company in Germany. That seemed pretty easy, too. But it seems the US is unique in the way that raising capital is much easier than elsewhere. That can be great if you want to start a business, but it also means that competition can grow quickly, too.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  European (Czech) here. There is an attitude difference between most European countries and the USA when it comes to starting businesses. Bankruptcy is shameful here, almost on par with deliberate crime, and carries a lot of stigma; you will be considered untrustworthy from that point on and will find it harder to attract funding or even customers, once they learn about a bankruptcy in your past. The population is more conservative with regard to technical development, so innovations mostly take form of very gradual improvements. Disruption of any kind won't find much purchase. Americans seem to be readier to try new things out. Most European megacorporations are 50+ years old and their founders are long dead.
  - 6y ago
bird_monster 6y ago
The comment you are responding to is comparing the USA in the 70s to the USA today. Your response seems to imply you think they are saying that in the US, we do not have it easy. That is not the argument they were making.
fiblye 6y ago
> The USA is an absolute paradise for an immigrant. This is really the key point. When immigrating to a country, you’re already taking a huge risk. You’re leaving behind extended family. You’re generally a little more well off than a typical person in your home country. You’re not really bound down by debt histories (who’s going to collect when you’re 5000 miles away and your bank accounts are out of reach?). Your debt future isn’t as much of a concern (who’s going to collect if you just pack up and go home without telling anyone?) Your past work experience and education experience isn’t as much of a concern because nobody is going to call up a former employer in a foreign country or look up transcripts or know anything about the reputation of foreign schools. You’re generally willing to take bigger risks because you’ve already taken a huge one by up and leaving your old lifestyle, and you also abandon a bunch of your burdens. A bunch of people will say their home country doesn’t have great opportunities, but America does. 100% of the time, without exception, there’s an American living in that country making shitloads of money because being an immigrant there presents unique opportunities and they’re laughing at people saying America would be better. Saying this as someone who immigrated to a country outside of America.
- Siira 6y ago
  Opportunities exist everywhere, but your argument is not cohesive and it’s insulting; Immigrants don’t see the value proposition of the USA as no debts and a blank slate. In fact, a lot of them lose out because their previous achievements are not recognized by the foreigners.
  - fiblye 6y ago
    And the parent comment saying Americans who aren't out there being entrepreneurs and starting businesses are "drowning themselves in self-pity" is insulting. When I immigrated, I left behind tangible proof of my achievements, but I could've also completely bullshitted my history and instantly jumped into a higher level than was possible in my old country. It's also virtually risk-free should I fail. So long as I have enough money for a plane ticket home, I can just leave and there's zero long term consequence. This is incredibly common for westerners in Asia to do. It's also not uncommon for non-Americans to move to the US to instantly get a leg up in work with some companies really giving preferential treatment to things like H1Bs, then going back home with a larger savings and better opportunities to actually get started as an entrepreneur. Americans who only have America don't have those massive privileges.
9387367 6y ago
Cool story bro. Completely unrelated to the comment you replied though as that was not the point they made, but since you’re in a sharing mode, I’m interested to hear: 1 – Who paid for your education in your native country? 2 – With how much student debt did you arrive in the US? 3 – How did you get your starting capital including flights, rent money, etc? 4 – What are your rationale explaining any of the social issues in the pre-COVID America? (homelessness, foodbank, opioid, incarceration, etc...crises) Really interested to hear your take.
- probably_wrong 6y ago
  I think you may be the one that missed the point, as I don't see how mmaunder's comment (objecting to the "I wish we had it this easy today" with "you have it easier that you think") is unrelated. As someone who found themselves in a similar situation as mmaunder, but who emigrated to Europe instead of the US, I thought I would take a stab at your questions: 1 - In theory, my education was free. In practice, I have to thank my parents for supporting me until I was in my 30s. Otherwise, I would have had to get a job - I still got part-time jobs, but I'm not sure I would have gotten my degree if I had had to work full time. 2 - See 1. 3 - I saved from my part-time jobs enough for the one-way flight plus 3 months, which I spent almost entirely in my first month (I didn't account for the 3 months rent deposit). My parents helped me until my PhD student paperwork was done, at which point I made enough to sustain myself. 4. I think you are reading mmaunder's comment as "the US is the best country in the world", which is not the case (that would be, I don't know, Sweden maybe?). What they are arguing, instead, is that being "okay" in the US is miles ahead of being "okay" in half the world. Could the US do better? Sure, for all the reasons that you mention (plus medical debt). But you may be so used to what people consider normal in the US (drinking water, money that doesn't lose its value week to week, not being shot by someone trying to steal your cell phone) that you don't see the good parts anymore.
  - 9387367 6y ago
    So you think the vast majority of Americans have that easy today? You don’t think millions of Americans see their money lose its value week to week? Their friends or family being shot by someone trying to steal their cell phone? What does understanding the reality of life in America has to do with my capacity to see the good parts? See how the only point you did not address was (4). Do you still think I missed mmaunder’s point? Besides, the comment mmaunder replied to was comparing different periods, but your argument makes for a valid point that America is a great place for a privileged immigrant, but let’s not pretend that this is on offer to every American...or the vast majority of immigrants working minimal wage (when lucky, illegal aliens, forced labour, slave labour...) and providing the services you and mmaunder so proudly benefit from. Have a quick look at cost of education and housing vs income growth. > I think you are reading mmaunder's comment as "the US is the best country in the world" Not at all. I read mmaunder’s comment as “I had the privilege of moving here with many benefits not afforded to the average American and I just can’t believe Americans..." How do I know/guessed mmaunder’s privilege? Based on this: > I remember when I first moved here. I was incorporating my first California corporation using a Nolo book. mmaunder moved to the US to open their business, and that usually means, having enough capital that your worries are well disconnected from the reality of real America.
publicola1990 6y ago
But at the same time I do think the golden age of US is past, there are greater opportunities in the third world, many ideas that are simply not cost viable in the US, is eminently feasible in a 3rd world country possibly at a fraction of the cost, not to mention there being far too many unexploited opportunities in these places and many of these are going to be bigger markets than the US in short period of time.
rbrtl 6y ago
> “you do have it easy” > “you’re very fortunate” So it’s lucky to be an entrepreneur in the US particularly if you immigrate. I think GP was more interested in having opportunities like: managing a franchise after going on a course someone else funded, starving your family and working them for no money without retribution, throwing caution to the wind re customer hygiene to save a few cents on coffee stirrers, and being able to buy any business whatsoever with 1 year’s worth of donut-shop-manager money. The only thing this guy did on his own was fritter away other people’s money to get “high”, and try to kill himself when things looked bad for him personally. He’s a pitiful man who has exploited those around him only to end up back in the dirt where he belonged. Of course he went into politics.
- 9387367 6y ago
  I guess we are in the minority here, but I share your take on this if that means anything.
  - collaborative 6y ago
    Same here. Poor guy, so good he changed in the end. Many never do
    - rbrtl 6y ago
      Addicts who recover tend to admit that they are always in recovery, not that they’re healed. Though the religious framework and the 12 step program are very similar. Hopefully he keeps the faith if it works for him. Edit to add, look at the last line of the article itself. > "I never back down. Never give up. Never surrender. Even in gambling. It took longer than 40 years. But I still win. At the end, I win."
Technically 6y ago
Of course raising capital is easy in America—exploiting people without shame is the only thing we do well.
Nullabillity 6y ago
> experienced tall poppy syndrome No, getting called out for being a blood-sucking leech is not "tall poppy syndrome". Consider sitting down for two seconds and asking yourself why people dislike you.
rubicon33 6y ago
Oh god, really? How is the OP “drowning in self pity”? The reality is that both you and the OP are correct. There are far fewer opportunities, leg ups, and bootstraps, than it seems there were in prior generations. Yet still, as you point out, the US ranks among the best.
93po 6y ago
As others have mentioned, I agree the US is easier than other countries. But that wasn't really my point
rdtwo 6y ago
It’s paradise because you don’t see the obstacles or go gays. They look different in the us than they might in your home country so it’s not obvious what they are. Many Americans see the same when they look at the third world and see no rules or regulations to hold them back but fail to account for other issues.

banachtarski 6y ago

Is being male and white not a factor in your analysis. Just looking statistically at the segment of the demographic which directly correlates with wealth and entrepreneurship paints a different story from your narrative.

temporama1 6y ago
Grow up
kjksf 6y ago
The article we're discussing is about a non-white Asian immigrant becoming a millionaire in U.S. by opening donut shops. He also helped a hundred+ other non-white, Asian immigrants to become small business owners. And if you ever worked in Silicon Valley as a programmer, you must have noticed how people from India and China are over-represented in that profession. Not to mention plenty of white males that are not rich and successful. Being white male is neither sufficient nor necessary for success.
IncRnd 6y ago
The Donut King of this article is not a while male but a Cambodian immigrant who lifted himself and his entire community up economically.
inglor_cz 6y ago
Methinks you SEVERELY underestimate the business acumen of South and East Asians. This is actually an interesting study in internal contradictions of the woke ideology. East Asians face a lot of racism when they move to Europe / America. Racial slurs, distrust from authorities, unwillingness to rent premises etc. No doubt about that, I was a kid in the early 90s and Vietnamese in Czechoslovakia were obvious targets, unfortunately. You could see it on a daily basis back then. But that does not prevent them from growing very rich and successful. The so-called "systemic racism" somehow fails to prevent them from reaching elite status in large numbers.

jjeaff 6y ago

Now imagine all that opportunity, plus a much less competitive business environment and fewer regulations. That is what it was like 50 years ago in the US.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Also important was a much faster rate of growth in population: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/population-growth-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/popu... It’s also my opinion that the internet and use of computers and high speed communications have led to more market efficiency and less arbitrage opportunities. In decades past, an individual might have been more likely than now to notice and take advantage of an inefficiency, whereas now the bigger players have access to much more data about the market, satellite imagery, pricing and sales information, etc so that they are competing on all levels.
homero 6y ago
Anything went but that included building your factory next to the river and dumping in the river.
jedrek 6y ago
Imagine having well paid customers.
- 9387367 6y ago
  That's communism...no...what? wait a minute!!
refurb 6y ago
"a much less competitive business environment" Which business environment? The competitiveness is absolutely not universal across all markets in the US. There are plenty of markets that aren't competitive at all.
- evgen 6y ago
  I believe the point being made was that in the 50s and 60s in the US there was a large domestic market that had almost no foreign competitors (either they were still rebuilding form WW2 rubble or were way behind US tech) and those same foreign markets were mostly open for US exports. In a lot of industries there was probably a good foreign competitor at the top-end, a few low-end foreign companies, but the vast middle of the market was exclusively owned by US companies for at least two decades.

Donckele 6y ago

Thanks for the positive comment! Could you say more about your background and experiences as an immigrant stepping off the boat?

markdown 6y ago

> These things don’t exist in most other countries. American exceptionalism eh?

kjksf 6y ago
The guy who wrote it is not an American and it's a fact that e.g. opening a business in U.S. is easier and cheaper than in most other countries.
- jedrek 6y ago
  They’re not an American but they’re also not from “other countries”, but from one specific country. None of the 27 countries of the EU have that level of corruption or hyperinflation either. My country has an absolutely horrible reputation for business and somehow I’ve had mine for almost 9 years without much bother.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  It took me €80 in cash and an afternoon to incorporate a liability limited company in Germany. That seemed pretty easy, too. But it seems the US is unique in the way that raising capital is much easier than elsewhere. That can be great if you want to start a business, but it also means that competition can grow quickly, too.
inglor_cz 6y ago
European (Czech) here. There is an attitude difference between most European countries and the USA when it comes to starting businesses. Bankruptcy is shameful here, almost on par with deliberate crime, and carries a lot of stigma; you will be considered untrustworthy from that point on and will find it harder to attract funding or even customers, once they learn about a bankruptcy in your past. The population is more conservative with regard to technical development, so innovations mostly take form of very gradual improvements. Disruption of any kind won't find much purchase. Americans seem to be readier to try new things out. Most European megacorporations are 50+ years old and their founders are long dead.
- 6y ago

bird_monster 6y ago

The comment you are responding to is comparing the USA in the 70s to the USA today. Your response seems to imply you think they are saying that in the US, we do not have it easy. That is not the argument they were making.

fiblye 6y ago

> The USA is an absolute paradise for an immigrant. This is really the key point. When immigrating to a country, you’re already taking a huge risk. You’re leaving behind extended family. You’re generally a little more well off than a typical person in your home country. You’re not really bound down by debt histories (who’s going to collect when you’re 5000 miles away and your bank accounts are out of reach?). Your debt future isn’t as much of a concern (who’s going to collect if you just pack up and go home without telling anyone?) Your past work experience and education experience isn’t as much of a concern because nobody is going to call up a former employer in a foreign country or look up transcripts or know anything about the reputation of foreign schools. You’re generally willing to take bigger risks because you’ve already taken a huge one by up and leaving your old lifestyle, and you also abandon a bunch of your burdens. A bunch of people will say their home country doesn’t have great opportunities, but America does. 100% of the time, without exception, there’s an American living in that country making shitloads of money because being an immigrant there presents unique opportunities and they’re laughing at people saying America would be better. Saying this as someone who immigrated to a country outside of America.

Siira 6y ago
Opportunities exist everywhere, but your argument is not cohesive and it’s insulting; Immigrants don’t see the value proposition of the USA as no debts and a blank slate. In fact, a lot of them lose out because their previous achievements are not recognized by the foreigners.
- fiblye 6y ago
  And the parent comment saying Americans who aren't out there being entrepreneurs and starting businesses are "drowning themselves in self-pity" is insulting. When I immigrated, I left behind tangible proof of my achievements, but I could've also completely bullshitted my history and instantly jumped into a higher level than was possible in my old country. It's also virtually risk-free should I fail. So long as I have enough money for a plane ticket home, I can just leave and there's zero long term consequence. This is incredibly common for westerners in Asia to do. It's also not uncommon for non-Americans to move to the US to instantly get a leg up in work with some companies really giving preferential treatment to things like H1Bs, then going back home with a larger savings and better opportunities to actually get started as an entrepreneur. Americans who only have America don't have those massive privileges.

9387367 6y ago

Cool story bro. Completely unrelated to the comment you replied though as that was not the point they made, but since you’re in a sharing mode, I’m interested to hear: 1 – Who paid for your education in your native country? 2 – With how much student debt did you arrive in the US? 3 – How did you get your starting capital including flights, rent money, etc? 4 – What are your rationale explaining any of the social issues in the pre-COVID America? (homelessness, foodbank, opioid, incarceration, etc...crises) Really interested to hear your take.

probably_wrong 6y ago
I think you may be the one that missed the point, as I don't see how mmaunder's comment (objecting to the "I wish we had it this easy today" with "you have it easier that you think") is unrelated. As someone who found themselves in a similar situation as mmaunder, but who emigrated to Europe instead of the US, I thought I would take a stab at your questions: 1 - In theory, my education was free. In practice, I have to thank my parents for supporting me until I was in my 30s. Otherwise, I would have had to get a job - I still got part-time jobs, but I'm not sure I would have gotten my degree if I had had to work full time. 2 - See 1. 3 - I saved from my part-time jobs enough for the one-way flight plus 3 months, which I spent almost entirely in my first month (I didn't account for the 3 months rent deposit). My parents helped me until my PhD student paperwork was done, at which point I made enough to sustain myself. 4. I think you are reading mmaunder's comment as "the US is the best country in the world", which is not the case (that would be, I don't know, Sweden maybe?). What they are arguing, instead, is that being "okay" in the US is miles ahead of being "okay" in half the world. Could the US do better? Sure, for all the reasons that you mention (plus medical debt). But you may be so used to what people consider normal in the US (drinking water, money that doesn't lose its value week to week, not being shot by someone trying to steal your cell phone) that you don't see the good parts anymore.
- 9387367 6y ago
  So you think the vast majority of Americans have that easy today? You don’t think millions of Americans see their money lose its value week to week? Their friends or family being shot by someone trying to steal their cell phone? What does understanding the reality of life in America has to do with my capacity to see the good parts? See how the only point you did not address was (4). Do you still think I missed mmaunder’s point? Besides, the comment mmaunder replied to was comparing different periods, but your argument makes for a valid point that America is a great place for a privileged immigrant, but let’s not pretend that this is on offer to every American...or the vast majority of immigrants working minimal wage (when lucky, illegal aliens, forced labour, slave labour...) and providing the services you and mmaunder so proudly benefit from. Have a quick look at cost of education and housing vs income growth. > I think you are reading mmaunder's comment as "the US is the best country in the world" Not at all. I read mmaunder’s comment as “I had the privilege of moving here with many benefits not afforded to the average American and I just can’t believe Americans..." How do I know/guessed mmaunder’s privilege? Based on this: > I remember when I first moved here. I was incorporating my first California corporation using a Nolo book. mmaunder moved to the US to open their business, and that usually means, having enough capital that your worries are well disconnected from the reality of real America.

publicola1990 6y ago

But at the same time I do think the golden age of US is past, there are greater opportunities in the third world, many ideas that are simply not cost viable in the US, is eminently feasible in a 3rd world country possibly at a fraction of the cost, not to mention there being far too many unexploited opportunities in these places and many of these are going to be bigger markets than the US in short period of time.

rbrtl 6y ago

> “you do have it easy” > “you’re very fortunate” So it’s lucky to be an entrepreneur in the US particularly if you immigrate. I think GP was more interested in having opportunities like: managing a franchise after going on a course someone else funded, starving your family and working them for no money without retribution, throwing caution to the wind re customer hygiene to save a few cents on coffee stirrers, and being able to buy any business whatsoever with 1 year’s worth of donut-shop-manager money. The only thing this guy did on his own was fritter away other people’s money to get “high”, and try to kill himself when things looked bad for him personally. He’s a pitiful man who has exploited those around him only to end up back in the dirt where he belonged. Of course he went into politics.

9387367 6y ago
I guess we are in the minority here, but I share your take on this if that means anything.
- collaborative 6y ago
  Same here. Poor guy, so good he changed in the end. Many never do
  - rbrtl 6y ago
    Addicts who recover tend to admit that they are always in recovery, not that they’re healed. Though the religious framework and the 12 step program are very similar. Hopefully he keeps the faith if it works for him. Edit to add, look at the last line of the article itself. > "I never back down. Never give up. Never surrender. Even in gambling. It took longer than 40 years. But I still win. At the end, I win."

Technically 6y ago

Of course raising capital is easy in America—exploiting people without shame is the only thing we do well.

Nullabillity 6y ago

> experienced tall poppy syndrome No, getting called out for being a blood-sucking leech is not "tall poppy syndrome". Consider sitting down for two seconds and asking yourself why people dislike you.

rubicon33 6y ago

Oh god, really? How is the OP “drowning in self pity”? The reality is that both you and the OP are correct. There are far fewer opportunities, leg ups, and bootstraps, than it seems there were in prior generations. Yet still, as you point out, the US ranks among the best.

93po 6y ago

As others have mentioned, I agree the US is easier than other countries. But that wasn't really my point

rdtwo 6y ago

It’s paradise because you don’t see the obstacles or go gays. They look different in the us than they might in your home country so it’s not obvious what they are. Many Americans see the same when they look at the third world and see no rules or regulations to hold them back but fail to account for other issues.