4 ms·

I definitely prefer native to web apps but I wonder if it is fair to attribute fault to web developers actively pushing web apps when the convenience factors ar

I definitely prefer native to web apps but I wonder if it is fair to attribute fault to web developers actively pushing web apps when the convenience factors are so overwhelmingly against installing native apps.

na85 6y ago
>the convenience factors are so overwhelmingly against installing native apps. Citation needed. I can think of precious few applications that are better in the browser than native. MS Office and Libre Office are significantly better than the horrid google docs experience. Not a single web-based text or code editor is worth a damn. Games are better, more featureful and more performant as native than in the browser. Web based CAD is a joke. Almost every major application is inferior as a web app. Gmail on desktop is about the only thing that's better than the native experience, at least that I can think of.
- jamesgeck0 6y ago
  It’s the friction of launching a new application the first time. It requires like four more clicks to run an unsigned executable on Windows, two of which are to bypass a scary “this is probably malware” dialog box.
  - na85 6y ago
    Get your exe signed? I dunno, number of clicks seems like a weak argument in favour of web to me. Start -> type "f-i-r-e" -> click Firefox -> click bookmark in the menubar That's still 3 clicks. Doublclicking the icon on the desktop maybe but that's 3 as well. Launching a native app would be no different.
- jarvelov 6y ago
  > Not a single web-based text or code editor is worth a damn. codesandbox.io is actually very good for web development. If I didn't have access to a native code editor I would be pretty content with just using codesandbox. I think it uses a modified version of VS Code.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > Citation needed. I can think of precious few applications that are better in the browser than native. Imagine you’re a small business owner without an IT staff. Do you spend your time dealing with corrupted installations, malware, reinstalling after hardware fails, backup data and then verifying backups, or do you pay someone else a monthly fee to deal with all that and just worry about having an iPad with a working internet connection? If your device breaks, you toss it, switch to another machine, go to a browser, type in the website, login, and you’re good to go again within seconds. That seems a lot better and faster than paying for in house IT. Of course, the downside is you have ceded some control over to someone else and are now paying them rent and possibly getting locked in, but you have limited resources to allocate, and you decide going to see your kids’ performance is more important.
  - na85 6y ago
    That's great marketing copy for spyware^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsoftware as a service but my father owns a small business staffed with some of the least tech savvy people I've ever met and I can tell you: - corrupted installs aren't really a thing any more - hardware failures happen at about the same rate as hardware goes obsolete. If the hardware fails you're buying a new ipad anyways, and unlike a commodity windows PC the iPad can't be repaired. - malware is still a threat if you have a spyware solution like O365 - as google demonstrates on a regular basis, you can't trust that you'll have access to your cloud backups. If you have data that you actually need, then you need to back it up yourself. Restoring backups takes maybe a few hours a year. Not an issue. - an iPad is not a substitute for a desktop workstation >If your device breaks, you toss it, switch to another machine, go to a browser, type in the website, login, and you’re good to go again within seconds. That seems a lot better and faster than paying for in house IT. Sure until google locks you out of your account for no reason or you realize you're paying insanely high fees per year when your strategy could be to buy a prebuilt system from Dell once or twice a year and copy your backup data from a USB hard drive. For a business of 30 people or so this is perfectly viable.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      And here's an example from a hotel: Instead of having an onsite server running property management system software that has to synchronize inventory with the central reservation system, a web based property management system you can access via a browser has the following benefits for the hotel owner: 1) Don't have to worry about server HDD failures, or any other hardware failures. 2) If power goes out, just browse to the website with a mobile device. 3) Never any inventory issues since there is no synchronization that needs to be done. 4) Revolving door of minimum wage front desk workers who install malware on your Windows computers can't do that anymore if using an iPad or iPad like device, and if they do, it wouldn't result in liability due to theft of people's data. See Marriott/IHG data leaks a few years ago. 5) Lowers labor costs since you don't need someone to troubleshoot technical stuff, other than get a device with an internet connection and a browser. 6) Can move towards a self check in check out system where the guest can basically do it all via an app or the hotel's website, further reducing labor costs. 7) Features can be updated and implemented far more easily when hardware features don't have to be worried about.

na85 6y ago

>the convenience factors are so overwhelmingly against installing native apps. Citation needed. I can think of precious few applications that are better in the browser than native. MS Office and Libre Office are significantly better than the horrid google docs experience. Not a single web-based text or code editor is worth a damn. Games are better, more featureful and more performant as native than in the browser. Web based CAD is a joke. Almost every major application is inferior as a web app. Gmail on desktop is about the only thing that's better than the native experience, at least that I can think of.

jamesgeck0 6y ago
It’s the friction of launching a new application the first time. It requires like four more clicks to run an unsigned executable on Windows, two of which are to bypass a scary “this is probably malware” dialog box.
- na85 6y ago
  Get your exe signed? I dunno, number of clicks seems like a weak argument in favour of web to me. Start -> type "f-i-r-e" -> click Firefox -> click bookmark in the menubar That's still 3 clicks. Doublclicking the icon on the desktop maybe but that's 3 as well. Launching a native app would be no different.
jarvelov 6y ago
> Not a single web-based text or code editor is worth a damn. codesandbox.io is actually very good for web development. If I didn't have access to a native code editor I would be pretty content with just using codesandbox. I think it uses a modified version of VS Code.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
> Citation needed. I can think of precious few applications that are better in the browser than native. Imagine you’re a small business owner without an IT staff. Do you spend your time dealing with corrupted installations, malware, reinstalling after hardware fails, backup data and then verifying backups, or do you pay someone else a monthly fee to deal with all that and just worry about having an iPad with a working internet connection? If your device breaks, you toss it, switch to another machine, go to a browser, type in the website, login, and you’re good to go again within seconds. That seems a lot better and faster than paying for in house IT. Of course, the downside is you have ceded some control over to someone else and are now paying them rent and possibly getting locked in, but you have limited resources to allocate, and you decide going to see your kids’ performance is more important.
- na85 6y ago
  That's great marketing copy for spyware^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsoftware as a service but my father owns a small business staffed with some of the least tech savvy people I've ever met and I can tell you: - corrupted installs aren't really a thing any more - hardware failures happen at about the same rate as hardware goes obsolete. If the hardware fails you're buying a new ipad anyways, and unlike a commodity windows PC the iPad can't be repaired. - malware is still a threat if you have a spyware solution like O365 - as google demonstrates on a regular basis, you can't trust that you'll have access to your cloud backups. If you have data that you actually need, then you need to back it up yourself. Restoring backups takes maybe a few hours a year. Not an issue. - an iPad is not a substitute for a desktop workstation >If your device breaks, you toss it, switch to another machine, go to a browser, type in the website, login, and you’re good to go again within seconds. That seems a lot better and faster than paying for in house IT. Sure until google locks you out of your account for no reason or you realize you're paying insanely high fees per year when your strategy could be to buy a prebuilt system from Dell once or twice a year and copy your backup data from a USB hard drive. For a business of 30 people or so this is perfectly viable.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    And here's an example from a hotel: Instead of having an onsite server running property management system software that has to synchronize inventory with the central reservation system, a web based property management system you can access via a browser has the following benefits for the hotel owner: 1) Don't have to worry about server HDD failures, or any other hardware failures. 2) If power goes out, just browse to the website with a mobile device. 3) Never any inventory issues since there is no synchronization that needs to be done. 4) Revolving door of minimum wage front desk workers who install malware on your Windows computers can't do that anymore if using an iPad or iPad like device, and if they do, it wouldn't result in liability due to theft of people's data. See Marriott/IHG data leaks a few years ago. 5) Lowers labor costs since you don't need someone to troubleshoot technical stuff, other than get a device with an internet connection and a browser. 6) Can move towards a self check in check out system where the guest can basically do it all via an app or the hotel's website, further reducing labor costs. 7) Features can be updated and implemented far more easily when hardware features don't have to be worried about.