4 ms·

A lot of people on Hacker News are, I imagine, in a place of relative computing privilege. You probably have root / super user status on your work machine. I

A lot of people on Hacker News are, I imagine, in a place of relative computing privilege. You probably have root / super user status on your work machine. I do not. The IT department is the super user. Everything is a battle. Nothing gets changed without a multi-hour / -day back and forth with the “IT service team”. To be charitable they could be described as a very resource limited team who are forced to ruthlessly prioritize requests. Realistically they are power drunk gatekeepers. The answer is usually always “no”. It’s a whole new world of bullshit that I’d forgotten existed. The last time I encountered this was in the education sector in 2004.

stjohnswarts 6y ago
I worked at a company like that. They worked on top secret projects so everything was locked down as tight as you would imagine. I literally couldn't install anything that wasn't in the approved software library/installer. I had them add a few things (which took weeks) that I used. I enjoyed the programming but ultimately I got tired of it and moved on.
userbinator 6y ago
As a developer (native code, admittedly), I refuse to work for any company who does not give me root/administrative privileges on my work machine. In your situation, my advice is to make management very aware that it's wasting time, hurting productivity, and ultimately the company's bottom line. Something that impacts profitability is going to get more attention.
- yarcob 6y ago
  The problem is that IT departments are really good at coming up with excuses why they need to lock everything down (eg. because of GDPR compliance), so the usual result is that employees just use web apps instead of more secure local apps that they can't install, or just use their personal devices instead.
  - toyg 6y ago
    > employees just use web apps It’s all fun and games until IT ticks the “filesharing sites” option in their censorware proxy config, and poof, no Dropbox, no Drive, no Gmail...
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    I'm convinced that a substantial part of the popularity of SaaS is because people can bypass IT and its sehnanigns.
    - foepys 6y ago
      And now enterprise permission features like ACLs creep into web apps because companies think web apps are popular for other reasons and we start the whole thing all over again.
  - gorgoiler 6y ago
    You’ve perfectly captured the nature of this problem. Thank you, I really appreciate your comment. A powerful and dysfunctional IT department is indeed a horrible business practice. The transactions between IT and staff are glibly treated as some sort of internal vendor/client relationship. But the vendor (IT) isn’t responsible to the client (me.) The vendor’s performance is reviewed by their management, and their management’s management. At some point up the tree the reporting structures do converge, but that nexus is sufficiently distant that any technical feedback is weeks old and diluted. Luckily, the battle with IT is such a tiny part of my job that I’ve decided to just check out completely. For part of my work I provide my own devices, network, and software and I’m quite open (constructively, with my manager) about the fact that I do so, and why. I’m stoic about how the org chooses to interpret me voting with my feet like this. Meanwhile I can focus on doing work, which is mostly what I care about. Sometimes though, the idea of working at such a dysfunctional org makes me feel a deep unease. My employer might also feel unease. We may choose, unilaterally or bilaterally, to terminate our relationship and find partners that are a better fit. Life’s too short to fight all the time.
- rcxdude 6y ago
  The startup I work at got such a policy instituted such a policy (mainly because the CEO got hypervigilent about IT and IP theft), and I managed to get that changed back so now effectively everyone has admin access (though through a seperate password prompt, which is reasonable increase over window's default). I think it really helped though that the IT which had admin access was outsourced and each (pretty frequent) ticket came with a bill for $XXX.
unishark 6y ago
Luckily I need to do research on my desktop so always insist on Linux, which the IT department isn't able to administer. I made the mistake of asking for a windows laptop once even though it was supposedly for research and I had admin access (and they promised not to install anything unless I asked for it). They still installed some remote monitoring/admin crap on it that reinstalls virus protection and other crap whenever I remove it.
ccmcarey 6y ago
I'm amused when companies don't give developers root powers, but then lets them run docker which .. can give them root powers in a single command.
- 1_player 6y ago
  > can give them root powers in a single command On Linux. Given that businesses run Windows or macOS, at least those with an IT dept., root in a VM has little more privileges than any other user mode executable.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
You talk as if developers don't ruthlessly prioritize and gatekeep too. Departments have to do this all the time because we have limited resources and shit needs to get done. The real problem is that IT people (and that includes developers) have a nasty habit of looking down on anyone that isn't them and believing themselves superior in every way, so they're unwilling to empathize or reason with the people who's jobs their policies are interfering with.
zajio1am 6y ago
A friend of mine has similar issue and solved that by running Linux in a Virtualbox (and doing most work there).

stjohnswarts 6y ago

I worked at a company like that. They worked on top secret projects so everything was locked down as tight as you would imagine. I literally couldn't install anything that wasn't in the approved software library/installer. I had them add a few things (which took weeks) that I used. I enjoyed the programming but ultimately I got tired of it and moved on.

userbinator 6y ago

As a developer (native code, admittedly), I refuse to work for any company who does not give me root/administrative privileges on my work machine. In your situation, my advice is to make management very aware that it's wasting time, hurting productivity, and ultimately the company's bottom line. Something that impacts profitability is going to get more attention.

yarcob 6y ago
The problem is that IT departments are really good at coming up with excuses why they need to lock everything down (eg. because of GDPR compliance), so the usual result is that employees just use web apps instead of more secure local apps that they can't install, or just use their personal devices instead.
- toyg 6y ago
  > employees just use web apps It’s all fun and games until IT ticks the “filesharing sites” option in their censorware proxy config, and poof, no Dropbox, no Drive, no Gmail...
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  I'm convinced that a substantial part of the popularity of SaaS is because people can bypass IT and its sehnanigns.
  - foepys 6y ago
    And now enterprise permission features like ACLs creep into web apps because companies think web apps are popular for other reasons and we start the whole thing all over again.
- gorgoiler 6y ago
  You’ve perfectly captured the nature of this problem. Thank you, I really appreciate your comment. A powerful and dysfunctional IT department is indeed a horrible business practice. The transactions between IT and staff are glibly treated as some sort of internal vendor/client relationship. But the vendor (IT) isn’t responsible to the client (me.) The vendor’s performance is reviewed by their management, and their management’s management. At some point up the tree the reporting structures do converge, but that nexus is sufficiently distant that any technical feedback is weeks old and diluted. Luckily, the battle with IT is such a tiny part of my job that I’ve decided to just check out completely. For part of my work I provide my own devices, network, and software and I’m quite open (constructively, with my manager) about the fact that I do so, and why. I’m stoic about how the org chooses to interpret me voting with my feet like this. Meanwhile I can focus on doing work, which is mostly what I care about. Sometimes though, the idea of working at such a dysfunctional org makes me feel a deep unease. My employer might also feel unease. We may choose, unilaterally or bilaterally, to terminate our relationship and find partners that are a better fit. Life’s too short to fight all the time.
rcxdude 6y ago
The startup I work at got such a policy instituted such a policy (mainly because the CEO got hypervigilent about IT and IP theft), and I managed to get that changed back so now effectively everyone has admin access (though through a seperate password prompt, which is reasonable increase over window's default). I think it really helped though that the IT which had admin access was outsourced and each (pretty frequent) ticket came with a bill for $XXX.

unishark 6y ago

Luckily I need to do research on my desktop so always insist on Linux, which the IT department isn't able to administer. I made the mistake of asking for a windows laptop once even though it was supposedly for research and I had admin access (and they promised not to install anything unless I asked for it). They still installed some remote monitoring/admin crap on it that reinstalls virus protection and other crap whenever I remove it.

ccmcarey 6y ago

I'm amused when companies don't give developers root powers, but then lets them run docker which .. can give them root powers in a single command.

1_player 6y ago
> can give them root powers in a single command On Linux. Given that businesses run Windows or macOS, at least those with an IT dept., root in a VM has little more privileges than any other user mode executable.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

You talk as if developers don't ruthlessly prioritize and gatekeep too. Departments have to do this all the time because we have limited resources and shit needs to get done. The real problem is that IT people (and that includes developers) have a nasty habit of looking down on anyone that isn't them and believing themselves superior in every way, so they're unwilling to empathize or reason with the people who's jobs their policies are interfering with.

zajio1am 6y ago

A friend of mine has similar issue and solved that by running Linux in a Virtualbox (and doing most work there).