7 ms·

Well, yeah. Important things like tethering would never have made it into iOS if Apple hadn't been dragged there by the jailbreakers.

cortesoft 6y ago
Oh, it would have made it, they just needed to figure out the best way to charge for it.
- vosper 6y ago
  Was it ever Apple who charged for tethering? I always thought it was in the hands of the networks and their various plans. Today it seems like it's not even a feature anymore, just something you can do with your phone (or, at least for me it is: I'm on one of the cheapest cellphone plans in my country and tethering just works)
  - m463 6y ago
    In the US tethering is fundamentally different (or at least the carriers want you to think that so they can upcharge it)
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    Yes, it is the networks that demand extra payment for tethering. That is still a thing in the US; you have to pay extra for a plan that includes tethering.
    - usr1106 6y ago
      Surprising from a European perspective. I have used tethering since before phones had a HTTP/HTML browser (~ 2001, remember WAP?). The question has always been do you have packet data or not, what is your bandwidth and volume. Nothing else is the operator's business.
      - vladvasiliu 6y ago
        Not really. They still separate on-device use from modem use. At least Bouygues Telecom in France does. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25243710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25243710
        usr1106 6y ago
        hors modem, you are right. So France is different. I'm 100% sure that has never existed in Finland (well, the most common packages are unlimited anyway) and 90% sure it's not common in Germany either (they use throttling after you reach the limit) So technically, how do they differentiate the traffic?
        vladvasiliu 6y ago
        Most of the time, tethering is allowed in the base package. What happens afterwards depends. They can either cut you off or throttle. The only experience I have with this is Orange, and they throttle to the point where you basically have no connection (SSH is unusable). Not sure though how they differentiate the traffic. There are "access points" set up which I presume are used for either connection. In my case they are the same but I seem to remember on an older phone they used to be different. It was also a different provider. I'm also not sure how they would detect that they're changed. Screenshot of my setup: https://imgur.com/a/xH88Itp https://imgur.com/a/xH88Itp
      - bonzini 6y ago
        Tethering and hotspot traffic is still marked with a different APN type ("dun").
        usr1106 6y ago
        Does APN type go out over the network? I thought that's an Android internal thing to decide which of several APNs to use. Also the first 2 references that Google returns say dun is obsolete and not in use with today's devices. I believe that belongs to the ATD *99# era (Havent't worked in the field for 10+ years, could be wrong.)
    - rileymat2 6y ago
      The networks demand it, but Apple provided them the ability to demand it.
spullara 6y ago
This has always been the domain of the carriers, not Apple.
- nsomaru 6y ago
  I’m not from the US, could you explain this perspective to me? You give me internet on device X. How is it up to you how I use it?
  - gear54rus 6y ago
    Same way it is up to me how you use books you bought (kindle) or songs you bought (any streaming crap nowadays). If you're shitty enough person (good businessman) you can profit off of anything.
    - jolux 6y ago
      DRM on books is about the rights holder, not the person selling it. I can assure you that Amazon doesn’t actually give a shit what you do with your books outside of having an obligation to the rights holders.
      - coddle-hark 6y ago
        Easy access to a huge library of books is one of the main selling points of the Kindle. DRM is good for Amazon.
        jolux 6y ago
        Yeah, because they wouldn’t be able to offer it otherwise. If they could offer the same content without DRM at the same price, I’m certain they would do it. Apple did with the iTunes Store.
        toyg 6y ago
        They wouldn’t, simply because their position as the dominant player in ePublishing gives them a massive incentive to lock-in users. Which is what their DRM does: you cannot move books to non-Amazon devices, so you’re stuck on Kindle forever. That this also satisfies publishers is something of a side-effect. They did the opposite with music (they actually sold simple standard mp3s, unlike what you get from iTunes) because they were challengers, not incumbents, so the priority was to attract users.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

cortesoft 6y ago

Oh, it would have made it, they just needed to figure out the best way to charge for it.

vosper 6y ago
Was it ever Apple who charged for tethering? I always thought it was in the hands of the networks and their various plans. Today it seems like it's not even a feature anymore, just something you can do with your phone (or, at least for me it is: I'm on one of the cheapest cellphone plans in my country and tethering just works)
- m463 6y ago
  In the US tethering is fundamentally different (or at least the carriers want you to think that so they can upcharge it)
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Yes, it is the networks that demand extra payment for tethering. That is still a thing in the US; you have to pay extra for a plan that includes tethering.
  - usr1106 6y ago
    Surprising from a European perspective. I have used tethering since before phones had a HTTP/HTML browser (~ 2001, remember WAP?). The question has always been do you have packet data or not, what is your bandwidth and volume. Nothing else is the operator's business.
    - vladvasiliu 6y ago
      Not really. They still separate on-device use from modem use. At least Bouygues Telecom in France does. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25243710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25243710
      - usr1106 6y ago
        hors modem, you are right. So France is different. I'm 100% sure that has never existed in Finland (well, the most common packages are unlimited anyway) and 90% sure it's not common in Germany either (they use throttling after you reach the limit) So technically, how do they differentiate the traffic?
        vladvasiliu 6y ago
        Most of the time, tethering is allowed in the base package. What happens afterwards depends. They can either cut you off or throttle. The only experience I have with this is Orange, and they throttle to the point where you basically have no connection (SSH is unusable). Not sure though how they differentiate the traffic. There are "access points" set up which I presume are used for either connection. In my case they are the same but I seem to remember on an older phone they used to be different. It was also a different provider. I'm also not sure how they would detect that they're changed. Screenshot of my setup: https://imgur.com/a/xH88Itp https://imgur.com/a/xH88Itp
    - bonzini 6y ago
      Tethering and hotspot traffic is still marked with a different APN type ("dun").
      - usr1106 6y ago
        Does APN type go out over the network? I thought that's an Android internal thing to decide which of several APNs to use. Also the first 2 references that Google returns say dun is obsolete and not in use with today's devices. I believe that belongs to the ATD *99# era (Havent't worked in the field for 10+ years, could be wrong.)
  - rileymat2 6y ago
    The networks demand it, but Apple provided them the ability to demand it.

spullara 6y ago

This has always been the domain of the carriers, not Apple.

nsomaru 6y ago
I’m not from the US, could you explain this perspective to me? You give me internet on device X. How is it up to you how I use it?
- gear54rus 6y ago
  Same way it is up to me how you use books you bought (kindle) or songs you bought (any streaming crap nowadays). If you're shitty enough person (good businessman) you can profit off of anything.
  - jolux 6y ago
    DRM on books is about the rights holder, not the person selling it. I can assure you that Amazon doesn’t actually give a shit what you do with your books outside of having an obligation to the rights holders.
    - coddle-hark 6y ago
      Easy access to a huge library of books is one of the main selling points of the Kindle. DRM is good for Amazon.
      - jolux 6y ago
        Yeah, because they wouldn’t be able to offer it otherwise. If they could offer the same content without DRM at the same price, I’m certain they would do it. Apple did with the iTunes Store.
        toyg 6y ago
        They wouldn’t, simply because their position as the dominant player in ePublishing gives them a massive incentive to lock-in users. Which is what their DRM does: you cannot move books to non-Amazon devices, so you’re stuck on Kindle forever. That this also satisfies publishers is something of a side-effect. They did the opposite with music (they actually sold simple standard mp3s, unlike what you get from iTunes) because they were challengers, not incumbents, so the priority was to attract users.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]