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I don't think internal hubs are amazing :) Derailer systems only absord energy in the chain and bearings, and a well maintained system can maybe lose 1.5% of e

by mpol 6y ago

I don't think internal hubs are amazing :) Derailer systems only absord energy in the chain and bearings, and a well maintained system can maybe lose 1.5% of energy. Internal hub gearing can lose around 15% energy. The shop keeper won't tell you this, he just wants to sell you a bike. If he starts talking difficult things, buyers might just go to the next shop to buy what they had already chosen.

lostlogin 6y ago
I got it for free as a hand-me-down so I do think I can be fairly objective about it. I’m surprised to hear the energy loss is that high. It was paired with fast tires and that bike could move quickly. The downsides of having to adjust and maintain the wheel position were not a worthwhile trade off though, but it was so close.
olau 6y ago
I have looked a several charts, and that is not an honest comparison. A derailleur will not be 1.5% energy loss across all gears. And I've not seen a chart for an internal hub that had 15% energy loss across all gears. If you actually take a look at your derailleur system, you'll notice that a) the chain is not straight in all but a few settings, b) it has a somewhat complicated arm with an extra sprocket to keep the chain tight. And it is harder to protect it with a guard, so you end up with more dirt in the system if you use it every day. But yes, internal hubs are heavier, generally somewhat less efficient, and better protected against the elements.
usrusr 6y ago
Internal hubs are amazing for the kind of bike that's always outside and gets maintenance beyond occasional tire pumping about as often as summer olympics are opened. Unfortunately SRAM stopped production of the T3 years ago, it was the perfect drive for a low maintenance, low value practical utility bike, providing the easy 80% of everything you want from bicycle gears for short distance commuting. Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers.
- war1025 6y ago
  > Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers. Funny, I thought it was my three young kids that did that. I always had a mountain bike growing up. Having now transitioned to more of a road bike, the difference in rideability is pretty stark. I guess it could be the derailleur, but I assumed it was the tires and gearset that made it a pain to get places. I also have noticed a night and day difference when my tires are properly inflated. I just replaced the tubes and tires so maybe I'll have better luck now, but previously I needed to refill the tires basically daily to keep them in the right range.
  - jmartinpetersen 6y ago
    My nine year old isn't responsible enough to care for a derailleur (let alone park his bike instead of throwing it on the ground), but he can bike to school just fine with his internal hub and 15 % energy loss.
  - NLips 6y ago
    The only reasons for needing to reinflate every day should be: 1) using latex inner tubes. They’re lighter, but don’t hold air so well. Fine for racing, impractical for normal use 2) a slow puncture
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      3) broken valve 4) badly seated valve tip (dirt?)
  - scns 6y ago
    Schwalbe recommends inflating once a month on butyl tubes.
jacquesm 6y ago
The only internal geared hubs that lose 15% of energy are the ones that are constant variable ratio drives. The rest of them are extremely good and lose < 3% power, on par with a derailleur system that has seen regular maintenance, a bit worse than a derailleur in perfect (new!) shape.

by mpol 6y ago

lostlogin 6y ago

I got it for free as a hand-me-down so I do think I can be fairly objective about it. I’m surprised to hear the energy loss is that high. It was paired with fast tires and that bike could move quickly. The downsides of having to adjust and maintain the wheel position were not a worthwhile trade off though, but it was so close.

olau 6y ago

I have looked a several charts, and that is not an honest comparison. A derailleur will not be 1.5% energy loss across all gears. And I've not seen a chart for an internal hub that had 15% energy loss across all gears. If you actually take a look at your derailleur system, you'll notice that a) the chain is not straight in all but a few settings, b) it has a somewhat complicated arm with an extra sprocket to keep the chain tight. And it is harder to protect it with a guard, so you end up with more dirt in the system if you use it every day. But yes, internal hubs are heavier, generally somewhat less efficient, and better protected against the elements.

usrusr 6y ago

Internal hubs are amazing for the kind of bike that's always outside and gets maintenance beyond occasional tire pumping about as often as summer olympics are opened. Unfortunately SRAM stopped production of the T3 years ago, it was the perfect drive for a low maintenance, low value practical utility bike, providing the easy 80% of everything you want from bicycle gears for short distance commuting. Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers.

war1025 6y ago
> Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers. Funny, I thought it was my three young kids that did that. I always had a mountain bike growing up. Having now transitioned to more of a road bike, the difference in rideability is pretty stark. I guess it could be the derailleur, but I assumed it was the tires and gearset that made it a pain to get places. I also have noticed a night and day difference when my tires are properly inflated. I just replaced the tubes and tires so maybe I'll have better luck now, but previously I needed to refill the tires basically daily to keep them in the right range.
- jmartinpetersen 6y ago
  My nine year old isn't responsible enough to care for a derailleur (let alone park his bike instead of throwing it on the ground), but he can bike to school just fine with his internal hub and 15 % energy loss.
- NLips 6y ago
  The only reasons for needing to reinflate every day should be: 1) using latex inner tubes. They’re lighter, but don’t hold air so well. Fine for racing, impractical for normal use 2) a slow puncture
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    3) broken valve 4) badly seated valve tip (dirt?)
- scns 6y ago
  Schwalbe recommends inflating once a month on butyl tubes.

jacquesm 6y ago

The only internal geared hubs that lose 15% of energy are the ones that are constant variable ratio drives. The rest of them are extremely good and lose < 3% power, on par with a derailleur system that has seen regular maintenance, a bit worse than a derailleur in perfect (new!) shape.