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"Furthermore, even assuming that women do in fact choose lower-paying jobs, to what extent is this tolerable? After all, whether the cause is societal pressure

"Furthermore, even assuming that women do in fact choose lower-paying jobs, to what extent is this tolerable? After all, whether the cause is societal pressure or neurobiology, either way women are influenced by something outside of their direct control." What is inside someone's direct control if not their choices? I'm not commenting on the content of the article or the issue of discrimination in general. But the above sentence is horrible reasoning.

CMartucci 16y ago
I didn't know so many people would have a problem with that sentence. I thought it was clear that I was merely playing devil's advocate. It's not horrible reasoning. It's merely a question that I thought should be raised.
- jeffdavis 16y ago
  Granted, "free will" and "choice" are complex topics. But it's confusing to use a word like "choose" and then immediately say "outside of their direct control". On reflection, I think the point that you were trying to make was something like: "Regardless of whether the cause is societal pressure, neurobiology, or personal choices, women are potentially suffering from lower pay." I liked the article before the conclusion, however.
  - CMartucci 16y ago
    Lol. Well, perhaps I'll reword the conclusion. I suppose it was a bit confusing. I was arguing that a woman's "choice" could be caused/influenced by societal pressure or neurobiology. And either way, to what extent is this a robust "choice"? Personally, I believe that neurobiology is the cause of all our behavior. However, I think it is still worth bringing up the implications of that line of thought. As I said before, there are neurobiological reasons for racism. Of course, these reasons do not JUSTIFY racism, they merely EXPLAIN it. And so, in my conclusion, I wanted to bring up the issue -- "Although we may be able to explain lower pay, either through neurobiology, societal pressure, or otherwise, this does not necessarily justify it."
    - jeffdavis 16y ago
      Yes, that wording is much better. Person1: "My house washed away!" Person2: "I have found the cause: it was that hurricane last night. My work here is done; glad I could help; you are very welcome."

CMartucci 16y ago

I didn't know so many people would have a problem with that sentence. I thought it was clear that I was merely playing devil's advocate. It's not horrible reasoning. It's merely a question that I thought should be raised.

jeffdavis 16y ago
Granted, "free will" and "choice" are complex topics. But it's confusing to use a word like "choose" and then immediately say "outside of their direct control". On reflection, I think the point that you were trying to make was something like: "Regardless of whether the cause is societal pressure, neurobiology, or personal choices, women are potentially suffering from lower pay." I liked the article before the conclusion, however.
- CMartucci 16y ago
  Lol. Well, perhaps I'll reword the conclusion. I suppose it was a bit confusing. I was arguing that a woman's "choice" could be caused/influenced by societal pressure or neurobiology. And either way, to what extent is this a robust "choice"? Personally, I believe that neurobiology is the cause of all our behavior. However, I think it is still worth bringing up the implications of that line of thought. As I said before, there are neurobiological reasons for racism. Of course, these reasons do not JUSTIFY racism, they merely EXPLAIN it. And so, in my conclusion, I wanted to bring up the issue -- "Although we may be able to explain lower pay, either through neurobiology, societal pressure, or otherwise, this does not necessarily justify it."
  - jeffdavis 16y ago
    Yes, that wording is much better. Person1: "My house washed away!" Person2: "I have found the cause: it was that hurricane last night. My work here is done; glad I could help; you are very welcome."