6 ms·

Why do you feel the need to pick on Apple when: a) their updates require consent b) their telemetry is less invasive than Google's or Microsoft's and at least

by blub 6y ago

Why do you feel the need to pick on Apple when: a) their updates require consent b) their telemetry is less invasive than Google's or Microsoft's and at least they explain what they're collecting in most of their apps and allow one to turn off some things c) they do offer power user options such as allowing kexts like the one from Little Snitch. https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917 https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917 d) generally add functionality ?

MrStonedOne 6y ago
Because most windows/android users would love to jump to apple for their privacy friendly and user-unhostile approach to updates but resent the idea that they would have to give up their app freedom to do so. So i can either install any app i want into my factory installed spyware ridden forced updating android phone and windows desktop machine, or give up the ability to control what software I can install my machine in order to gain privacy by switching to apple. We want both damn it. And in my case I'll begrudgingly take windows and android over apple, but I don't like it.
- blub 6y ago
  You can AFAIK install what you want as long as you're willing to pay for a developer cert. But it's easier to just think of iThings as appliances with lots of cool use cases instead of general computing machines.
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  I mean, you literally are not even mentioning the option that has exactly what you want defined as it's core values. Whenever I hear all this lamenting about Apple this, Microsoft that, Google rablerablerable ... we have been told about all of this sine at least 1989! I'm full-time, work and private, on a Free desktop OS since 10 years +. Just put your money and effort into the Free alternative.
  - MrStonedOne 6y ago
    I have a rooted and custom rom android phone running an official lineage os release It still can't make phone calls without cycling airplane mode between calls. The one before that would crash if I paired a bluetooth device while connected to one already. Both of them bootloop at the power off battery charge screen, which basically means i couldn't turn my phone on while plugged in, and unless its a fast charger, the act of repeatedly booting up keeping the phone screen on ends up draining power faster then it can charge. So. Tell me again about these free and open options.
    - turbinerneiter 6y ago
      And you will have similar justifications for using Windows instead of Linux, I presume. It is interesting how it works for some people, and for other people their device literally explodes.
      - toxik 6y ago
        Even veteran Linux users face absurd shortcomings in interoperability. Sleep mode being a trivial example, or using bluetooth headsets at all.
        Shared404 6y ago
        Currently use both a bluetooth headset and a bluetooth speaker with my nvidia optimus laptop. There are occasional issues, but nothing showstopping for me.
    - pitay 6y ago
      Not my experience with LineageOS. My biggest problems with my phone with LineageOS is that I cannot use a microSD card as more internal disk space, not a problem with LineageOS itself, but a problem with Android 6 and above on my phone. The other problem is LineageOS not having an update for my phone for 2 or 3 years, as mine is an old budget phone from 2014. On the whole I have been very happy with LineageOS as it has allowed me to continue to use my phone for years longer than I would have with the simply bad manufacturer updates that almost completely filled the internal disk space and stopped updating something like 2015 with Android 5. Less unnecessary expense, less eWaste, thumbs up. For me, I would definitely go with a phone manufacturer that supports rooting their device and put LineageOS on it if I think I need it. I may not install it, but the option for the future is the main thing.
- vetinari 6y ago
  What are those Android phones with forced updates? Wasn't the problem originaly that Android phones didn't have any updates?
  - smegger001 6y ago
    My LG android phone periodically forces updates and accompanying restarts usually triggering at the least opportune time.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      Really? TIL. However, that's still not something being common among Android phones; if the original poster pointed out specific vendors, that would be OK. But saying that it is a common trait shared by all Androids is incorrect.
echelon 6y ago
> Why do you feel the need to pick on Apple I, a person with a modest net worth, am picking on trillion dollar Apple? That's so backwards it's funny. This is a company that erodes computing freedom and ownership. They've co-opted the commons, and they built it all on the back of open source. And I'm picking on them? Apple fans will say that Apple created billions of dollars of commerce opportunity. But it would have happened anyway without Apple. We'd be in a better world if we had an open app standard that worked cross-device and consumers had choice in distribution channels. We don't need to be "protected" by a company or big brother. Especially if such protection is just a cover story for controlling commerce.
- blub 6y ago
  Hold on mate... yes... you're picking on them :) I'm not saying you're crushing them with your righteous anger and to please have mercy on them, just that it's a tad odd to single out one particular trillion dollar company that is at least trying to do something in all the areas the original poster was complaining about. And I do feel that we should focus on the biggest offenders (i.e. Google and Facebook) first, because if there's a precedent the others will get the message quite fast.
  - echelon 6y ago
    > we should focus on the biggest offenders Apple is the worst of the lot, by far the most culpable, as they're directly attacking the notion of ownership and computing freedom. They're their own government that has somehow snuck under the radar of the DOJ. They behave like the mafia and offer "protection". Google is next for the harm they've done to the web. I think we can agree how bad they've bloodied it up. How can you put Facebook ahead of Apple? They're creepy and invasive, but they're not redefining what we can and cannot do, and they're the easiest to remove from our daily lives and industry. I want to distribute software and I still have to pay the Apple tax and jump through their hoops, and I'm left without a relationship with my customers. On the other side of the coin, as an owner I can't repair my device or run my own software. Facebook has little impact on my life, meanwhile Apple is a gravitational distortion in our industry.
gpm 6y ago
Apple doesn't let you run software Apple hasn't approved on most Apple devices (Phones and Ipads). On the remaining devices Apple doesn't let you run software Apple has blacklisted. Apple won't approve software that uses non-apple-approved services, like payment providers. Apple won't approve software that dares to inform users of these limitations. Apple won't approve third party browsers. Apple demands payment in order for them to approve software. Etc. Apple apparently has been silently and without permission or an off switch sending the name of the developer of literally every app you launch to Apple. This is far more invasive than anything I've heard of Google or Microsoft doing - not that I'm a fan of their telemetry either. Microsoft in particular also gives you tools to examine what they're sending in detail: https://www.howtogeek.com/348699/how-to-see-what-data-windows-10-is-sending-to-microsoft/ https://www.howtogeek.com/348699/how-to-see-what-data-window... On Apple devices which allow power user options (the minority of devices), they are still limited. For example Apple was (is?) making their own traffic bypass Little Snitch. Apple generally seems to remove functionality in the name of "design" and "safety" as far as I can see... I'm not sure how you think they're generally adding functionality.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Apple doesn't let you run software Apple hasn't approved on most Apple devices (Phones and Ipads). On the remaining devices Apple doesn't let you run software Apple has blacklisted. It's not like Apple forced you to buy a Mac or an iPhone. If anything you have to go out of your way to get one, because you see some appeal in them - as otherwise they're more expensive, with limited model choice, less bang for the buck, and a minority market share wise compared to most PC/Android stuff. So, perhaps those buying them know what they're doing? Walled garden (aka "curation") for many is part of the appeal.
  - echelon 6y ago
    By buying an Apple, you're hurting the rest of us.
    - throwaway98797 6y ago

by blub 6y ago

MrStonedOne 6y ago

Because most windows/android users would love to jump to apple for their privacy friendly and user-unhostile approach to updates but resent the idea that they would have to give up their app freedom to do so. So i can either install any app i want into my factory installed spyware ridden forced updating android phone and windows desktop machine, or give up the ability to control what software I can install my machine in order to gain privacy by switching to apple. We want both damn it. And in my case I'll begrudgingly take windows and android over apple, but I don't like it.

blub 6y ago
You can AFAIK install what you want as long as you're willing to pay for a developer cert. But it's easier to just think of iThings as appliances with lots of cool use cases instead of general computing machines.
turbinerneiter 6y ago
I mean, you literally are not even mentioning the option that has exactly what you want defined as it's core values. Whenever I hear all this lamenting about Apple this, Microsoft that, Google rablerablerable ... we have been told about all of this sine at least 1989! I'm full-time, work and private, on a Free desktop OS since 10 years +. Just put your money and effort into the Free alternative.
- MrStonedOne 6y ago
  I have a rooted and custom rom android phone running an official lineage os release It still can't make phone calls without cycling airplane mode between calls. The one before that would crash if I paired a bluetooth device while connected to one already. Both of them bootloop at the power off battery charge screen, which basically means i couldn't turn my phone on while plugged in, and unless its a fast charger, the act of repeatedly booting up keeping the phone screen on ends up draining power faster then it can charge. So. Tell me again about these free and open options.
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    And you will have similar justifications for using Windows instead of Linux, I presume. It is interesting how it works for some people, and for other people their device literally explodes.
    - toxik 6y ago
      Even veteran Linux users face absurd shortcomings in interoperability. Sleep mode being a trivial example, or using bluetooth headsets at all.
      - Shared404 6y ago
        Currently use both a bluetooth headset and a bluetooth speaker with my nvidia optimus laptop. There are occasional issues, but nothing showstopping for me.
  - pitay 6y ago
    Not my experience with LineageOS. My biggest problems with my phone with LineageOS is that I cannot use a microSD card as more internal disk space, not a problem with LineageOS itself, but a problem with Android 6 and above on my phone. The other problem is LineageOS not having an update for my phone for 2 or 3 years, as mine is an old budget phone from 2014. On the whole I have been very happy with LineageOS as it has allowed me to continue to use my phone for years longer than I would have with the simply bad manufacturer updates that almost completely filled the internal disk space and stopped updating something like 2015 with Android 5. Less unnecessary expense, less eWaste, thumbs up. For me, I would definitely go with a phone manufacturer that supports rooting their device and put LineageOS on it if I think I need it. I may not install it, but the option for the future is the main thing.
vetinari 6y ago
What are those Android phones with forced updates? Wasn't the problem originaly that Android phones didn't have any updates?
- smegger001 6y ago
  My LG android phone periodically forces updates and accompanying restarts usually triggering at the least opportune time.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    Really? TIL. However, that's still not something being common among Android phones; if the original poster pointed out specific vendors, that would be OK. But saying that it is a common trait shared by all Androids is incorrect.

echelon 6y ago

> Why do you feel the need to pick on Apple I, a person with a modest net worth, am picking on trillion dollar Apple? That's so backwards it's funny. This is a company that erodes computing freedom and ownership. They've co-opted the commons, and they built it all on the back of open source. And I'm picking on them? Apple fans will say that Apple created billions of dollars of commerce opportunity. But it would have happened anyway without Apple. We'd be in a better world if we had an open app standard that worked cross-device and consumers had choice in distribution channels. We don't need to be "protected" by a company or big brother. Especially if such protection is just a cover story for controlling commerce.

blub 6y ago
Hold on mate... yes... you're picking on them :) I'm not saying you're crushing them with your righteous anger and to please have mercy on them, just that it's a tad odd to single out one particular trillion dollar company that is at least trying to do something in all the areas the original poster was complaining about. And I do feel that we should focus on the biggest offenders (i.e. Google and Facebook) first, because if there's a precedent the others will get the message quite fast.
- echelon 6y ago
  > we should focus on the biggest offenders Apple is the worst of the lot, by far the most culpable, as they're directly attacking the notion of ownership and computing freedom. They're their own government that has somehow snuck under the radar of the DOJ. They behave like the mafia and offer "protection". Google is next for the harm they've done to the web. I think we can agree how bad they've bloodied it up. How can you put Facebook ahead of Apple? They're creepy and invasive, but they're not redefining what we can and cannot do, and they're the easiest to remove from our daily lives and industry. I want to distribute software and I still have to pay the Apple tax and jump through their hoops, and I'm left without a relationship with my customers. On the other side of the coin, as an owner I can't repair my device or run my own software. Facebook has little impact on my life, meanwhile Apple is a gravitational distortion in our industry.

gpm 6y ago

Apple doesn't let you run software Apple hasn't approved on most Apple devices (Phones and Ipads). On the remaining devices Apple doesn't let you run software Apple has blacklisted. Apple won't approve software that uses non-apple-approved services, like payment providers. Apple won't approve software that dares to inform users of these limitations. Apple won't approve third party browsers. Apple demands payment in order for them to approve software. Etc. Apple apparently has been silently and without permission or an off switch sending the name of the developer of literally every app you launch to Apple. This is far more invasive than anything I've heard of Google or Microsoft doing - not that I'm a fan of their telemetry either. Microsoft in particular also gives you tools to examine what they're sending in detail: https://www.howtogeek.com/348699/how-to-see-what-data-windows-10-is-sending-to-microsoft/ https://www.howtogeek.com/348699/how-to-see-what-data-window... On Apple devices which allow power user options (the minority of devices), they are still limited. For example Apple was (is?) making their own traffic bypass Little Snitch. Apple generally seems to remove functionality in the name of "design" and "safety" as far as I can see... I'm not sure how you think they're generally adding functionality.

coldtea 6y ago
>Apple doesn't let you run software Apple hasn't approved on most Apple devices (Phones and Ipads). On the remaining devices Apple doesn't let you run software Apple has blacklisted. It's not like Apple forced you to buy a Mac or an iPhone. If anything you have to go out of your way to get one, because you see some appeal in them - as otherwise they're more expensive, with limited model choice, less bang for the buck, and a minority market share wise compared to most PC/Android stuff. So, perhaps those buying them know what they're doing? Walled garden (aka "curation") for many is part of the appeal.
- echelon 6y ago
  By buying an Apple, you're hurting the rest of us.
  - throwaway98797 6y ago