4 ms·

If you want to shift gears using the carbon drive you have to use an internal gear hub, which has a lot less range than a traditional derailleur and is less eff

If you want to shift gears using the carbon drive you have to use an internal gear hub, which has a lot less range than a traditional derailleur and is less efficient. So if you are riding a racing or mountain bike a chain system is probably a better way to go. Also it looks like you can't shift under load with the internal hubs which is a problem if you are trying to climb hills quickly.

kleer001 6y ago
> a lot less range Maybe in the more popular implementations like from Shimano. But there's internal hubs with greater ratio spread than chained: The Rohloff: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  ...which at ~€1100 costs more than many people will spend on a bike, weighs more than a full set of sprockets and a derailleur, is less efficient due to the staged planetary drive, can only be repaired by sending it back to the factory, can (like other planetary drives) not be shifted under load and as such is more of an interesting novelty than a real solution to the stated problem.
  - filmor 6y ago
    Good internal hub gears can be shifted under load, and the Rohloff one is probably as good as it gets.
    - Yetanfou 6y ago
      The Rohloff can not be shifted under load. You can shift by quickly letting off power, shift and then resume like you can do with other planetary gear systems. Here's a discussion on the subject of shifting under load, with opinions from "both" sides: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0 http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0
    - klyrs 6y ago
      I ride a Rohloff and you do not shift them under load. Most of the shifts will tolerate a light load, but going from 7-8 while steaming up a hill will immediately bind the gears and you need to backpedal a few teeth to get it unstuck. By the time that's all sorted, you've lost your momentum and need to downshift again, not to mention taken months off of the lifetime of your very expensive hardware. As you can probably tell from my description, this is a mistake I've made. Binding up your brand new $1500 transmission is a great lesson to never do that again.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    All the gears on an internal hub are usable, there's no overlap. These days the ubiquitous Shimano Nexus hubs can shift under load. For the kind of bicycle most people buy they are a reasonable alternative because there isn't a fragile derailer, there's no double shifting, and the adjustment is static alignment of two yellow marks. In terms of friction, there are no jockey wheels and the chainline can be perfectly straight. Anyway, the internal friction of a geared hub is going to be unnoticeable for an average cyclist because the tires will be under-inflated, the chain covered in crud, and the brakes will be rubbing on untrue wheels. But like everything it's a tradeoff.
ohmaigad 6y ago
You can't/shouldn't shift under load with a derailleur either. Pinion gearbox has an option of 18 gears with a 600%+ ratio while something like SRAM Eagle 1x12 has 500% ratio. I don't know about the efficiency but i think something like this should be the future - https://www.pinkbike.com/news/allen-millyard-part-1-2008.html https://www.pinkbike.com/news/allen-millyard-part-1-2008.htm... or maybe there is proper reason why nothing like this has come into the market - shifting without pedalling or under load, closed system (don't care about dirt/water) and no noise.
frabbit 6y ago
Depends on the IGH. Nuvinci and Schlumpf definitely can. The efficiency (like all other marginal gains in cycling) is important for racers or long-distance tourers. For everyone else it needs to be considered against the maintenance burden required to maintain an exposed drivetrain which needs to be cleaned, lubricated and adjusted in order to maintain its relative efficiency. And weight...
pkulak 6y ago
My Pinion gearbox has 12 gears and a 600% range; about as much as a 3-chainring derailleur system. You can get them up to 18 gears and over 636%. It is less efficient (apparently). But at least it's consistent. Ride a chain in the rain for just a couple days and trust me, it's nowhere near that theoretical 95%.
brudgers 6y ago
My previous bike had a Shimano Nexus 8 speed. It would shift just fine under load. My current bike has a Sturmy Archer 3 speed and doesn't. Geared hubs are great for riding in traffic because you can shift while stopped. Pulling harder with traffic up to a light and braking aggressively, and switching to the right gear while waiting for the light to change. Like everything it's a tradeoff. For me, geared hubs make a bicycle a more useful tool. Less fragile. Less maintenance. Idiot friendly static adjustment.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  8 speed is a bit delicate to shift under load, if you plan on doing that a lot a 5 speed would be a better choice (also better for e-bikes, it will deal much better with the torque).
  - brudgers 6y ago
    The older I get, the more willing I am to use tools and accept that it will eventually wear it out. I put about a thousand miles around town in a year on it. The whole bike was $500 new with shipping. Never destined an heirloom. The Nexus eight speed is the seven speed with a “granny” gear. The seven high gears have small steps relative to a five or three speed. I suspect this might make shifting under load less stressful on the components...note that under load shifts are always just one gear at a time unlike a derailer. The Nexus 8 is a great piece of kit. Robust, inexpensive and stupid easy to tune.

kleer001 6y ago

> a lot less range Maybe in the more popular implementations like from Shimano. But there's internal hubs with greater ratio spread than chained: The Rohloff: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html

Yetanfou 6y ago
...which at ~€1100 costs more than many people will spend on a bike, weighs more than a full set of sprockets and a derailleur, is less efficient due to the staged planetary drive, can only be repaired by sending it back to the factory, can (like other planetary drives) not be shifted under load and as such is more of an interesting novelty than a real solution to the stated problem.
- filmor 6y ago
  Good internal hub gears can be shifted under load, and the Rohloff one is probably as good as it gets.
  - Yetanfou 6y ago
    The Rohloff can not be shifted under load. You can shift by quickly letting off power, shift and then resume like you can do with other planetary gear systems. Here's a discussion on the subject of shifting under load, with opinions from "both" sides: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0 http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0
  - klyrs 6y ago
    I ride a Rohloff and you do not shift them under load. Most of the shifts will tolerate a light load, but going from 7-8 while steaming up a hill will immediately bind the gears and you need to backpedal a few teeth to get it unstuck. By the time that's all sorted, you've lost your momentum and need to downshift again, not to mention taken months off of the lifetime of your very expensive hardware. As you can probably tell from my description, this is a mistake I've made. Binding up your brand new $1500 transmission is a great lesson to never do that again.
- brudgers 6y ago
  All the gears on an internal hub are usable, there's no overlap. These days the ubiquitous Shimano Nexus hubs can shift under load. For the kind of bicycle most people buy they are a reasonable alternative because there isn't a fragile derailer, there's no double shifting, and the adjustment is static alignment of two yellow marks. In terms of friction, there are no jockey wheels and the chainline can be perfectly straight. Anyway, the internal friction of a geared hub is going to be unnoticeable for an average cyclist because the tires will be under-inflated, the chain covered in crud, and the brakes will be rubbing on untrue wheels. But like everything it's a tradeoff.

ohmaigad 6y ago

You can't/shouldn't shift under load with a derailleur either. Pinion gearbox has an option of 18 gears with a 600%+ ratio while something like SRAM Eagle 1x12 has 500% ratio. I don't know about the efficiency but i think something like this should be the future - https://www.pinkbike.com/news/allen-millyard-part-1-2008.html https://www.pinkbike.com/news/allen-millyard-part-1-2008.htm... or maybe there is proper reason why nothing like this has come into the market - shifting without pedalling or under load, closed system (don't care about dirt/water) and no noise.

frabbit 6y ago

Depends on the IGH. Nuvinci and Schlumpf definitely can. The efficiency (like all other marginal gains in cycling) is important for racers or long-distance tourers. For everyone else it needs to be considered against the maintenance burden required to maintain an exposed drivetrain which needs to be cleaned, lubricated and adjusted in order to maintain its relative efficiency. And weight...

pkulak 6y ago

My Pinion gearbox has 12 gears and a 600% range; about as much as a 3-chainring derailleur system. You can get them up to 18 gears and over 636%. It is less efficient (apparently). But at least it's consistent. Ride a chain in the rain for just a couple days and trust me, it's nowhere near that theoretical 95%.

brudgers 6y ago

My previous bike had a Shimano Nexus 8 speed. It would shift just fine under load. My current bike has a Sturmy Archer 3 speed and doesn't. Geared hubs are great for riding in traffic because you can shift while stopped. Pulling harder with traffic up to a light and braking aggressively, and switching to the right gear while waiting for the light to change. Like everything it's a tradeoff. For me, geared hubs make a bicycle a more useful tool. Less fragile. Less maintenance. Idiot friendly static adjustment.

jacquesm 6y ago
8 speed is a bit delicate to shift under load, if you plan on doing that a lot a 5 speed would be a better choice (also better for e-bikes, it will deal much better with the torque).
- brudgers 6y ago
  The older I get, the more willing I am to use tools and accept that it will eventually wear it out. I put about a thousand miles around town in a year on it. The whole bike was $500 new with shipping. Never destined an heirloom. The Nexus eight speed is the seven speed with a “granny” gear. The seven high gears have small steps relative to a five or three speed. I suspect this might make shifting under load less stressful on the components...note that under load shifts are always just one gear at a time unlike a derailer. The Nexus 8 is a great piece of kit. Robust, inexpensive and stupid easy to tune.