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The reason it has been stuck to 16GB is precisely because Intel mobile chips did not support any more than that up until a year ago. So rather than blaming Appl

The reason it has been stuck to 16GB is precisely because Intel mobile chips did not support any more than that up until a year ago. So rather than blaming Apple, it should rather be placed on intel. I don't think expecting more than 16GB of ram for entry level Apple laptops should be expected. The low amount of ram, energy inefficiency and plateauing performance are the exact reason why Apple is moving away from Intel and onto a platform where they can control their own destiny.

ffggvv 6y ago
what do you mean entry level laptops? they don’t offer more than 16 and their base ram is only 8... and how are the macbook pro or mac mini entry level laptops?
- djrogers 6y ago
  The mini is their cheapest computer. The Air has been their entry level laptop for the last several generations. The 13” Pro has had 2 versions since 2016 - a low-end 2 port model, and a higher end 4 port model. Every device with an M1 available today is Apple’s lowest-end (and least expensive) offering.
Tuna-Fish 6y ago
The actual reason the M1 Macs cap out at 16GB is that they use LPDDR4, and that on a 128-bit bus caps out at 16GB. Assuming that they move to LPDRR5 as it becomes available (hasn't Apple generally been pretty quick on the uptake on new RAM standards?), that limit goes up to 64GB.
- DCKing 6y ago
  It's a conservative spec for sure given the rest of the M1. Samsung has shipped their own LPDDR5 in the Galaxy S20 since February. Maybe production capacity is still too limited.
  - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
    I believe that Samsung co-designed the memory with their interface block, and then it was effectively codified as the standard. Most other companies had to wait for the standard to be formed before they could start work on their IP. This gave Samsung a huge head start.
ustolemyname 6y ago
Intel's fault? Uhm, they've had some misses recently, but your statement about RAM support is incorrect. The 7200u supports 32GB or RAM. That chip is over 4 years old and nothing special. Not sure how long that's been supported, I didn't feel like looking further back. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95443/intel-core-i5-7200u-processor-3m-cache-up-to-3-10-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95443/i...
- X-Istence 6y ago
  It does not support LPDDR4... which is something Apple has been targeting because it uses less power.
  - ustolemyname 6y ago
    Huh, so they did. TIL.
  - rgbrenner 6y ago
    The just released 16" macbook pro has DDR4. They clearly aren't married to LPDDR.
    - X-Istence 6y ago
      Probably because they couldn't keep waiting. It also means the 16" MacBook Pro goes through battery life at high speed from experience.
      - AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
        Apple switched to DDR4 when the 2018 Macbook Pros were released which allowed them to support 32 GB of RAM. The rated battery life of the Macbook Pro didn't change between 2017 and 2018.
        X-Istence 6y ago
        The rated battery life may not have, but the actual, real world experience battery life certainly has. Speaking as the user of a. 2019 MacBook Pro with the DDR4 that I use for work. I find myself scrambling for a power supply way more often than I ever did with my 2017 15" MacBook Pro. Even with the older battery in the 2017, with more cycles, I get a longer battery life out of it than the 2019.
krzyk 6y ago
> The reason it has been stuck to 16GB is precisely because Intel mobile chips did not support any more than that up until a year ago. So rather than blaming Apple, it should rather be placed on intel. That is not true, example CPU I had in my old laptop: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/pl/pl/ark/products/78939/intel-core-i7-4910mq-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/pl/pl/ark/products/78939/i... Supports 32GB RAM, released in 2014. The reason some older laptops didn't have more RAM was twofold: 1. Either the BIOS wasn't written with such support 2. There were no RAM sticks big enough (no 16GB in a single SO-DIMM) so you could have 2x16 - but there are currently since a year or two, SO-DIMMs with 32GB RAM, so you could easily reach 64MB in a laptop.
- npunt 6y ago
  GP means LPDDR3 support which capped out at 16gb on intel, which was because their 10nm lines with LPDDR4 were delayed years. It was always possible to use regular DDR but for laptops the low power variant is important.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    ... and yet they use DDR4 (not LP) on at least one of their laptop lines.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Seemingly out of necessity?
    - npunt 6y ago
      Yes they do on the 16”, after years of complaints from users who didn’t understand the constraint, and which they added the maximum allowable battery size to (~100wH), and it still only lasts 3-4h in moderate use.
      - AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
        They switched it on the 2018 15-inch and it didn't change the battery life at all.
rgbrenner 6y ago
Apple sells the 16" macbook with 64gb of DDR4. It's their decision whether to use LPDDR or DDR. They choose LPDDR for some and DDR for others. Pretty incredible to blame another company for a decision that was made inside Apple. Especially for a chip that was designed from scratch in apple, and therefore has no Intel constraints.

ffggvv 6y ago

what do you mean entry level laptops? they don’t offer more than 16 and their base ram is only 8... and how are the macbook pro or mac mini entry level laptops?

djrogers 6y ago
The mini is their cheapest computer. The Air has been their entry level laptop for the last several generations. The 13” Pro has had 2 versions since 2016 - a low-end 2 port model, and a higher end 4 port model. Every device with an M1 available today is Apple’s lowest-end (and least expensive) offering.

Tuna-Fish 6y ago

The actual reason the M1 Macs cap out at 16GB is that they use LPDDR4, and that on a 128-bit bus caps out at 16GB. Assuming that they move to LPDRR5 as it becomes available (hasn't Apple generally been pretty quick on the uptake on new RAM standards?), that limit goes up to 64GB.

DCKing 6y ago
It's a conservative spec for sure given the rest of the M1. Samsung has shipped their own LPDDR5 in the Galaxy S20 since February. Maybe production capacity is still too limited.
- Tuna-Fish 6y ago
  I believe that Samsung co-designed the memory with their interface block, and then it was effectively codified as the standard. Most other companies had to wait for the standard to be formed before they could start work on their IP. This gave Samsung a huge head start.

ustolemyname 6y ago

Intel's fault? Uhm, they've had some misses recently, but your statement about RAM support is incorrect. The 7200u supports 32GB or RAM. That chip is over 4 years old and nothing special. Not sure how long that's been supported, I didn't feel like looking further back. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95443/intel-core-i5-7200u-processor-3m-cache-up-to-3-10-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95443/i...

X-Istence 6y ago
It does not support LPDDR4... which is something Apple has been targeting because it uses less power.
- ustolemyname 6y ago
  Huh, so they did. TIL.
- rgbrenner 6y ago
  The just released 16" macbook pro has DDR4. They clearly aren't married to LPDDR.
  - X-Istence 6y ago
    Probably because they couldn't keep waiting. It also means the 16" MacBook Pro goes through battery life at high speed from experience.
    - AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
      Apple switched to DDR4 when the 2018 Macbook Pros were released which allowed them to support 32 GB of RAM. The rated battery life of the Macbook Pro didn't change between 2017 and 2018.
      - X-Istence 6y ago
        The rated battery life may not have, but the actual, real world experience battery life certainly has. Speaking as the user of a. 2019 MacBook Pro with the DDR4 that I use for work. I find myself scrambling for a power supply way more often than I ever did with my 2017 15" MacBook Pro. Even with the older battery in the 2017, with more cycles, I get a longer battery life out of it than the 2019.

krzyk 6y ago

> The reason it has been stuck to 16GB is precisely because Intel mobile chips did not support any more than that up until a year ago. So rather than blaming Apple, it should rather be placed on intel. That is not true, example CPU I had in my old laptop: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/pl/pl/ark/products/78939/intel-core-i7-4910mq-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/pl/pl/ark/products/78939/i... Supports 32GB RAM, released in 2014. The reason some older laptops didn't have more RAM was twofold: 1. Either the BIOS wasn't written with such support 2. There were no RAM sticks big enough (no 16GB in a single SO-DIMM) so you could have 2x16 - but there are currently since a year or two, SO-DIMMs with 32GB RAM, so you could easily reach 64MB in a laptop.

npunt 6y ago
GP means LPDDR3 support which capped out at 16gb on intel, which was because their 10nm lines with LPDDR4 were delayed years. It was always possible to use regular DDR but for laptops the low power variant is important.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  ... and yet they use DDR4 (not LP) on at least one of their laptop lines.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Seemingly out of necessity?
  - npunt 6y ago
    Yes they do on the 16”, after years of complaints from users who didn’t understand the constraint, and which they added the maximum allowable battery size to (~100wH), and it still only lasts 3-4h in moderate use.
    - AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
      They switched it on the 2018 15-inch and it didn't change the battery life at all.

rgbrenner 6y ago

Apple sells the 16" macbook with 64gb of DDR4. It's their decision whether to use LPDDR or DDR. They choose LPDDR for some and DDR for others. Pretty incredible to blame another company for a decision that was made inside Apple. Especially for a chip that was designed from scratch in apple, and therefore has no Intel constraints.