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Having adopted a lot of quasi Buddhist frames in recent years, I increasingly look in askance at the self esteem framework. A friend was going through a crisis

Having adopted a lot of quasi Buddhist frames in recent years, I increasingly look in askance at the self esteem framework. A friend was going through a crisis of confidence in their professional life, and was basically saying, I think I’m not a good psychologist, and the fact that I “wasted” 10 years training for this makes me want to kill myself. Their buddhist teacher (In practice, a therapist, and also by education the teacher is literally a therapist) responded: so what if you’re not good at being a psychologist? What if it’s true? Isn’t it better to know? Being emotionally invested in our specialness/abilities/whatever is a trap, because we’re not special, we all have deep limitations in our capabilities. Whatever you’re the best at: there are people better than you. There are people who are probably better than you at every single thing you do. So what? Part of the Sunday chanting service: “let us overcome the inferiority complex, the superiority complex, and the equality complex.” None of which is to say we shouldn’t treat ourselves lovingly and with compassion. We definitely should, and it takes a lot of work and growth to do that, and pretending we’re not limited is a false solution.

pmoriarty 6y ago
"let us overcome the inferiority complex, the superiority complex, and the equality complex" This is a lot easier to do if we're alone on a desert island or in a cave on a mountain top. Even then, most of us have a lifetime of baggage to let go of, as we've been taught to idealize superachievers and geniuses, and despise underachievers and mediocrity from an early age. I'm reminded of the start of one of my favorite Hardcore History episodes -- the first of the Death Throes of the Republic series[1]: I want you to think back to the house you grew up in as a child. I want you to picture a room in that house that didn't exist. I want you to pretend it did, and the whole time you were a young child, growing up in to your adolescence and until you leave home you're aware of this room in the house. The room has faces on the wall, dead people's faces -- the faces of dead people who were related to you. The faces are made of wax, and they were made immediately upon death of the individual whose face it was. The wax was put on the face and, like a modern version of a wax museum, an accurate representation of your dead ancestor's dead face was made and was put on your wall connected by a painted line to his ancestor, your even earlier ancestor whose wax face made after death is also on the wall, and that is connected by another line to his ancestor whose wax mask is there as well. These may have been full color versions of these ancestors of yours and their names were there and from your very earliest childhood memory you're aware of this room, and you are aware of who these people are and you are aware of what they did. It's sort of freaky, though, isn't it? Now you know how Julius Caesar felt growing up. Now I remember being terrified by paintings -- completely innocuous paintings -- in my house when I was a child, and I know my children get freaked out at the slightest thing like that, but to Julius Caesar and people like him this "ancestor room" as it's sometimes called, had a profound effect on firing their ambition. The ancient historian Sallust said that the Romans described their children's spirits as blazing like flames when they would look at the sight. The ancient historian Polybius said, "It would be hard to imagine a more impressive scene for a youth who aspires to win fame and practice virtue." To these people who spent time amongst the Romans or who were Roman themselves, they thought this was a good way to create in your young people this desire for achievement which was the hallmark of Roman society during this time period... [1] - https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-death-throes-of-the-republic-series/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-death-thr...
- troughway 6y ago
  >we've been taught to idealize superachievers and geniuses, and despise underachievers and mediocrity from an early age. Who taught you that?
  - tasty_freeze 6y ago
    Not the person you replied to, but it is pretty pervasive in popular (US) culture. People like Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Henry Ford, Beethoven, Isaac Newton, etc are lionized. Countless books are written about them and their accomplishments; they are held up as examples of the ultimate in success. Meanwhile, people who play video games, stoners, adults who live with their parents, people who work at convenience stores for minimum wage, etc, are mocked with snide jokes on TV and in movies and internet memes. "Johnny, you need to do well at school and go to a good college or you'll end up like him!" as dad points to the janitor.
teaTime042 6y ago
Any book recommendations? I’ve been meditating with apps like calm for a few years. I’ve gotten a lot from breathing meditations, but feel like I’m only scratching the surface.
- roflc0ptic 6y ago
  Yeah! Breathing meditations are definitely the right place to start, but there’s really rich stuff after that. You can kind of view Buddhism as a three step process: the breathing/physical meditation techniques are for learning to direct your attention, and calm yourself down enough that you can pay attention to bodily sensations/your feelings. The next is getting acquainted with your patterns, identity the maladaptive bits, and use various meditations to train your mind into different patterns. The final phase is the more woo-sounding stuff about ego death and no self, and I don’t pretend to have a handle on it. Some great introductory books: “Radical Acceptance” by Tara Brach, which is pretty much anti-self esteem. This was personally the most useful to me. “Peace is Every Step” by Thich Naht Hanh is a great intro, too, followed by “The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings.” If you want something that is minimal woo, “Buddhism Without Belief” is pretty great. Also, the center I’m peripherally involved in is The Florida Community of Mindfulness, based in Tampa. They’ve moved all of their programming to zoom since the pandemic. Practicing meditation with other people is probably the most useful thing you can do. No doubt there are other centers near you, and it might make sense to invest in them, but might be worth watching a couple of saved dharma talks, or tuning into a Sunday service (10am EST). The teacher at FCM, Fred Epsteiner, is very well regarded, though. Tbh I get kind of triggered by older white dudes giving me advice, but lots of people like him. :)
the_only_law 6y ago
> so what if you’re not good at being a psychologist? What if it’s true? Isn’t it better to know? Isn’t there a saying, “ignorance is bliss”
- humanrebar 6y ago
  Not always for the other folks involved.
  - waterhouse 6y ago
    Indeed. If you're genuinely a bad therapist, but fool yourself into thinking that's not the case, then doesn't that mean you could end up worsening a bunch of people's lives? It depends on exactly what "bad" means—if it's "takes longer to help narrow down the causes of someone's problems", then that's probably not too bad, but if it's "subtly but consistently exacerbates one's patients' problems" or "recommends hallucinogenic drugs to patients with a family history of schizophrenia" (I've heard this is likely to trigger permanent issues; some googling gives conflicted but mostly supporting results), then you could really mess people up. And if you know what your flaws are, then you can usually limit their impact. (For example, if you know you're bad at figuring out the right thing to recommend—either due to not knowing the field or being bad at learning about the patient's traits or situational details that make some approaches good and others inappropriate—then you could make fewer recommendations and/or couch them with more of the "here are a few possibilities that come to mind, I don't know which if any might work well, if you do try them pay careful attention and reevaluate" than you otherwise would; or consult better therapists and/or refer patients to them more often.) That may translate directly into becoming a "better" therapist, I guess, although you may still not be "good".

pmoriarty 6y ago

"let us overcome the inferiority complex, the superiority complex, and the equality complex" This is a lot easier to do if we're alone on a desert island or in a cave on a mountain top. Even then, most of us have a lifetime of baggage to let go of, as we've been taught to idealize superachievers and geniuses, and despise underachievers and mediocrity from an early age. I'm reminded of the start of one of my favorite Hardcore History episodes -- the first of the Death Throes of the Republic series[1]: I want you to think back to the house you grew up in as a child. I want you to picture a room in that house that didn't exist. I want you to pretend it did, and the whole time you were a young child, growing up in to your adolescence and until you leave home you're aware of this room in the house. The room has faces on the wall, dead people's faces -- the faces of dead people who were related to you. The faces are made of wax, and they were made immediately upon death of the individual whose face it was. The wax was put on the face and, like a modern version of a wax museum, an accurate representation of your dead ancestor's dead face was made and was put on your wall connected by a painted line to his ancestor, your even earlier ancestor whose wax face made after death is also on the wall, and that is connected by another line to his ancestor whose wax mask is there as well. These may have been full color versions of these ancestors of yours and their names were there and from your very earliest childhood memory you're aware of this room, and you are aware of who these people are and you are aware of what they did. It's sort of freaky, though, isn't it? Now you know how Julius Caesar felt growing up. Now I remember being terrified by paintings -- completely innocuous paintings -- in my house when I was a child, and I know my children get freaked out at the slightest thing like that, but to Julius Caesar and people like him this "ancestor room" as it's sometimes called, had a profound effect on firing their ambition. The ancient historian Sallust said that the Romans described their children's spirits as blazing like flames when they would look at the sight. The ancient historian Polybius said, "It would be hard to imagine a more impressive scene for a youth who aspires to win fame and practice virtue." To these people who spent time amongst the Romans or who were Roman themselves, they thought this was a good way to create in your young people this desire for achievement which was the hallmark of Roman society during this time period... [1] - https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-death-throes-of-the-republic-series/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-death-thr...

troughway 6y ago
>we've been taught to idealize superachievers and geniuses, and despise underachievers and mediocrity from an early age. Who taught you that?
- tasty_freeze 6y ago
  Not the person you replied to, but it is pretty pervasive in popular (US) culture. People like Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Henry Ford, Beethoven, Isaac Newton, etc are lionized. Countless books are written about them and their accomplishments; they are held up as examples of the ultimate in success. Meanwhile, people who play video games, stoners, adults who live with their parents, people who work at convenience stores for minimum wage, etc, are mocked with snide jokes on TV and in movies and internet memes. "Johnny, you need to do well at school and go to a good college or you'll end up like him!" as dad points to the janitor.

teaTime042 6y ago

Any book recommendations? I’ve been meditating with apps like calm for a few years. I’ve gotten a lot from breathing meditations, but feel like I’m only scratching the surface.

roflc0ptic 6y ago
Yeah! Breathing meditations are definitely the right place to start, but there’s really rich stuff after that. You can kind of view Buddhism as a three step process: the breathing/physical meditation techniques are for learning to direct your attention, and calm yourself down enough that you can pay attention to bodily sensations/your feelings. The next is getting acquainted with your patterns, identity the maladaptive bits, and use various meditations to train your mind into different patterns. The final phase is the more woo-sounding stuff about ego death and no self, and I don’t pretend to have a handle on it. Some great introductory books: “Radical Acceptance” by Tara Brach, which is pretty much anti-self esteem. This was personally the most useful to me. “Peace is Every Step” by Thich Naht Hanh is a great intro, too, followed by “The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings.” If you want something that is minimal woo, “Buddhism Without Belief” is pretty great. Also, the center I’m peripherally involved in is The Florida Community of Mindfulness, based in Tampa. They’ve moved all of their programming to zoom since the pandemic. Practicing meditation with other people is probably the most useful thing you can do. No doubt there are other centers near you, and it might make sense to invest in them, but might be worth watching a couple of saved dharma talks, or tuning into a Sunday service (10am EST). The teacher at FCM, Fred Epsteiner, is very well regarded, though. Tbh I get kind of triggered by older white dudes giving me advice, but lots of people like him. :)

the_only_law 6y ago

> so what if you’re not good at being a psychologist? What if it’s true? Isn’t it better to know? Isn’t there a saying, “ignorance is bliss”

humanrebar 6y ago
Not always for the other folks involved.
- waterhouse 6y ago
  Indeed. If you're genuinely a bad therapist, but fool yourself into thinking that's not the case, then doesn't that mean you could end up worsening a bunch of people's lives? It depends on exactly what "bad" means—if it's "takes longer to help narrow down the causes of someone's problems", then that's probably not too bad, but if it's "subtly but consistently exacerbates one's patients' problems" or "recommends hallucinogenic drugs to patients with a family history of schizophrenia" (I've heard this is likely to trigger permanent issues; some googling gives conflicted but mostly supporting results), then you could really mess people up. And if you know what your flaws are, then you can usually limit their impact. (For example, if you know you're bad at figuring out the right thing to recommend—either due to not knowing the field or being bad at learning about the patient's traits or situational details that make some approaches good and others inappropriate—then you could make fewer recommendations and/or couch them with more of the "here are a few possibilities that come to mind, I don't know which if any might work well, if you do try them pay careful attention and reevaluate" than you otherwise would; or consult better therapists and/or refer patients to them more often.) That may translate directly into becoming a "better" therapist, I guess, although you may still not be "good".