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Most schoolchildren do the Pledge of Allegiance every morning, but in my experience, the only people who think it's some sort of dystopian practice are foreigne
by ceilingcorner 6y ago
Most schoolchildren do the Pledge of Allegiance every morning, but in my experience, the only people who think it's some sort of dystopian practice are foreigners whose primary knowledge of America comes from watching Netflix. For actual Americans, it's a mildly respectful gesture that simply implies patriotism...and it's not a particularly huge deal.
- elsjaako 6y agoAs someone who had never heard of the practice before moving to the US as a teen, it seemed pretty culty to me. I understand most Americans aren't that bothered, but that makes it even more creepy to us foreigners. I'm sure North Koreans are used to the Kims' pictures in every room, but that doesn't make it less weird from an outsiders perspective.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoComparing the Pledge of Allegiance to North Korean indoctrination is exactly the sort of absurd nonsense that I'm talking about. It's a basic tradition that helps instill patriotism, which from a purely practical point of view, is almost a political necessity in a country as diverse as America. Criticizing one's own country, which is probably one of the most American things one can do, is absolutely not possible in North Korea. I don't want to assume the country that you're from, but I'll say this: Europeans often have this constant attitude that they're the forefront of civilization and that anyone who doesn't match their highly subjective standards is ethically "behind." It's nauseating and frankly just the new flavor of Eurocentric imperialism.
- Gibbon1 6y ago> It's a basic tradition that helps instill patriotism AKA culty and weird.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoThis kind of snarky, low effort comment belongs on Reddit, not HN.
- Gibbon1 6y agoI don't feel like I need any more words to express my opinion. It's exactly like religion, if you weren't raised in it, you correctly see it at culty and weird.
- inopinatus 6y agoJoe McCarthy says Hi. Did you forget about the horrifying legacy of both literal and figurative witch trials? How about the US only very recently abandoning the idea that one person could own another? The idea that patriotism is a necessity makes me nauseous, particularly given the ghastly scars of full-on repression and brutality the US wears on its face for anyone with the temerity to speak the wrong opinion. Frankly I struggle to comprehend any other interpretation of history. Unless, of course, one is some kind of revisionist shitbird with blind spots up the wazoo. The infantile whinge about “Eurocentrism” is characteristic of the kind of petty-minded, reflexive, and ultimately inaccurate dismissal of outsiders I’ve come to expect from authoritarian demagogues and the wannabe bullies that defend them. All of which is to say, the fact that in the US, it’s possible to criticise the government, occurs despite the ludicrous brainwash theatrics, not because of them; and until very recently, only for a few.
- blub 6y agoPatriotism is loyalty to one's country, a perfectly normal and perfectly rational sentiment. If that makes you sick, take a pill and get over it.
- inopinatus 6y agoDulce et decorum est, eh? That old Lie.
- blub 6y agoBeing born somewhere and being a citizen gives you certain rights but also responsibilities. Not being loyal to your country means that you're not taking care of your responsibilities, so it would be fair that you should not enjoy the rights of citizenship. Those that dislike patriotism so much should provide the ultimate proof of their beliefs and renounce their citizenship. They shall surely be celebrated by all countries for transcending nationality and patriotism, right until they want to cross a border or demand something when they'll be told to GTFO back to where they came from.
- jessaustin 6y agoIn future, when people ask me why I don't like "my team", maybe I'll just point to this thread instead of boring them again with the centuries of racist violence, in which we are still engaged to this day.
- elsjaako 6y agoI was referring to the portraits of Kim Il Sung an Kim Jong Il which they hang in every house (and I believe most rooms). I think that is quite comparable. I would completely agree that the whole of "North Korean indoctrination" is worse than anything seen in mainstream USA. I'm not claiming Americans are behind, I'm saying the pledge seems creepy from an outside perspective.