3 ms·

Vacuous character assassination.

wpietri 6y ago
You claim that there's "absolutely no evidence" that racism is endemic, which is an absurd claim to make. There's enormous amounts of it. Hundreds of studies. Hundreds of books. And the daily lived experience of million of people, who you need only listen to on the Internet. But if you want a very simple, obvious one, take NBER paper 9873: https://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 https://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 One could plausibly debate the level of it. But to sweepingly declare there's absolutely no evidence isn't so much a claim of fact as a declaration of willful ignorance. Which, unfortunately, is part of why racism is still endemic. See, for example, Loewen's "Sundown Towns", where the later chapters show how America's ongoing de-facto segregation, which was born out of the Nadir, both depends on and creates the sort of refusal to see the obvious that you engage in here.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  Hiring preferences based on the cultural or racial association of names is not an indication of "systemic racism against black Americans" or endemic racism. Systemic or endemic implies the racism is part of the systemic structure, i.e. the laws of the country, or its social contract. This study would at most imply high incidence of unconscious racial biases among the population. It could also be explained by employer preference for people who are more integrated in the cultural mainstream, which people with "black" names, or Chinese names, are less likely to be. >But to sweepingly declare there's absolutely no evidence isn't so much a claim of fact as a declaration of willful ignorance To claim that there racism against black Americans is endemic, with the strongest evidence you were able to find being the incidence of bias with respect to job applicant names, shows a basic lack of regard for the truth. Literally, your logic could be used to argue that "racism against white Americans is endemic" because there are studies like this one that shows police are 25 times more likely to shoot an unarmed white male than an unarmed black male: https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=267470 https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=2674...
  - wpietri 6y ago
    You're conflating endemic and systemic. I clearly said one, not the other. Although you're wrong on both. That also isn't the strongest evidence. It's just one of the easiest to understand. But given that you're going to strain at gnats and swallow camels even with the pretty basic ones, I'll leave finding the rest as an exercise to the reader.
    - CryptoPunk 6y ago
      Endemic in this context is synonomous with systemic. You ignore the evidence showing unarmed black Americans are 25 times less likely to be shot by police than unarmed white Americans in a given interaction with similar circumstances, because it doesn't fit your victimhood narrative. You've done nothing but lob ad hominem at me for not agreeing with your completely baseless and unscientific quackery/dogma.
      - wpietri 6y ago
        Well since you believe you understand what I'm saying better than I do, it seems like I'm not needed in this conversation. Have fun arguing with your straw man.
        CryptoPunk 6y ago
        The only institutional racism in America today is affirmative action that blatantly discriminates in favor of individuals belonging to supposedly disadvantages groups, or the racial victimhood ideology that leads to police shooting unarmed black individuals at 25 times lower frequencies than unarmed white individuals in similar situations.
        wpietri 6y ago
        Well since you believe you understand what I'm saying better than I do, it seems like I'm not needed in this conversation. Have fun arguing with your straw man.

You claim that there's "absolutely no evidence" that racism is endemic, which is an absurd claim to make. There's enormous amounts of it. Hundreds of studies. Hundreds of books. And the daily lived experience of million of people, who you need only listen to on the Internet. But if you want a very simple, obvious one, take NBER paper 9873: https://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 https://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 One could plausibly debate the level of it. But to sweepingly declare there's absolutely no evidence isn't so much a claim of fact as a declaration of willful ignorance. Which, unfortunately, is part of why racism is still endemic. See, for example, Loewen's "Sundown Towns", where the later chapters show how America's ongoing de-facto segregation, which was born out of the Nadir, both depends on and creates the sort of refusal to see the obvious that you engage in here.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
Hiring preferences based on the cultural or racial association of names is not an indication of "systemic racism against black Americans" or endemic racism. Systemic or endemic implies the racism is part of the systemic structure, i.e. the laws of the country, or its social contract. This study would at most imply high incidence of unconscious racial biases among the population. It could also be explained by employer preference for people who are more integrated in the cultural mainstream, which people with "black" names, or Chinese names, are less likely to be. >But to sweepingly declare there's absolutely no evidence isn't so much a claim of fact as a declaration of willful ignorance To claim that there racism against black Americans is endemic, with the strongest evidence you were able to find being the incidence of bias with respect to job applicant names, shows a basic lack of regard for the truth. Literally, your logic could be used to argue that "racism against white Americans is endemic" because there are studies like this one that shows police are 25 times more likely to shoot an unarmed white male than an unarmed black male: https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=267470 https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=2674...
- wpietri 6y ago
  You're conflating endemic and systemic. I clearly said one, not the other. Although you're wrong on both. That also isn't the strongest evidence. It's just one of the easiest to understand. But given that you're going to strain at gnats and swallow camels even with the pretty basic ones, I'll leave finding the rest as an exercise to the reader.
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    Endemic in this context is synonomous with systemic. You ignore the evidence showing unarmed black Americans are 25 times less likely to be shot by police than unarmed white Americans in a given interaction with similar circumstances, because it doesn't fit your victimhood narrative. You've done nothing but lob ad hominem at me for not agreeing with your completely baseless and unscientific quackery/dogma.
    - wpietri 6y ago
      Well since you believe you understand what I'm saying better than I do, it seems like I'm not needed in this conversation. Have fun arguing with your straw man.
      - CryptoPunk 6y ago
        The only institutional racism in America today is affirmative action that blatantly discriminates in favor of individuals belonging to supposedly disadvantages groups, or the racial victimhood ideology that leads to police shooting unarmed black individuals at 25 times lower frequencies than unarmed white individuals in similar situations.
        wpietri 6y ago
        Well since you believe you understand what I'm saying better than I do, it seems like I'm not needed in this conversation. Have fun arguing with your straw man.