5 ms·

Iran's top nuclear scientist believed assassinated by Mossad

14 points by nsoonhui 6y ago

55555 6y ago
Imagine if France just covertly assassinated a US government scientist on US soil while s/he drove home to their family after work and then France just nonchalantly admitted this to the world and acted like it was normal.
- personomas 6y ago
  It's not like that. Israel and Iran are in a covert war, no? Also, Iran's government has seemingly shown over and over again that they are violent and cannot be trusted with nuclear power. Don't you think? I'm not saying killing this scientist was good or correct, I'm just saying it's not even close to the analogy you provided.
  - postingpals 6y ago
    Do you have a source for your second claim?
    - personomas 6y ago
      source? What are you asking for? Can I prove God exists? No. Similarly, I cannot prove such a claim. There have been seemingly plenty of news, I've spoken with Iranians, etc. None of this would be enough to prove anything to someone who can't see the writing on the wall. Nonetheless, I do respect the possibility that I might be wrong, that's why I had written seemingly. But it's so likely at this point, based on what I've seen, observed, understand, that my comment seems good and fair.
      - postingpals 6y ago
        You can tell it's an issue that warrants more than one sentence to come to a conclusion, because there is an entire wikipedia article dedicated to every country's viewpoint on the matter, meaning this is mostly a matter of opinion and cannot be used to justify the murder of a nuclear scientist. (Which I realise you did not justify) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_on_the_nuclear_program_of_Iran
        personomas 6y ago
        Just because there's debate and different opinions, doesn't mean the truth is inconclusive. Politicians have the same problem as you - where is the proof that Iran can't be trusted? There is no proof, there can't be proof. This leads to endless debate with many different opinions. Just because there's a disagreement involving many sides, doesn't mean that none of the sides are correct. Sometimes, just one of those sides are correct. It is good then when that side pursues the truth, even against all doubt.
    - personomas 6y ago
      Would you really trust a dictatorship with nuclear power?
      - postingpals 6y ago
        President Hassan Rouhani was elected democratically.
        personomas 6y ago
        Iranians were and are afraid to vote. Not too long ago, in Iran, there were scores of mass protests against their own government, who were then oppressed, subdued, and killed for protesting. Lots and lots of censorship including in the media, internet, and free speech. Sounds like a dictatorship to me.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - jasonvorhe 6y ago
        What about Russia? Or alternatively, what makes democratic nations the better shepards of nuclear weapons? It's not like they're asking their voters before they'd start a nuke. I think the cold war showed us how easy it is to succumb to fear and how close we can get to nuclear annihilation.
        personomas 6y ago
        Russia is more trustworthy than Iran. Nonetheless, nobody wants Russia to have nuclear weapons, but nobody can do anything about it. They've already have them for a long time. I don't trust anyone with nuclear weapons. It would be lovely if nobody had them. That's realistically not possible right now. As long as countries continue to amass them, there's a need for "more good" countries to keep them. These are almost always democracies. Democracy is generally speaking just safer and better than dictatorship. I'm just going to stop there, and not get into a debate right now of democracy vs dictatorship. Would you rather have the good man with the power, or the bad man? That's the ultimate question simplified. You want the good man with the power, then it's a question of who is good, which would lead to huge endless debate right now.
    - candiodari 6y ago
      I'd say this is pretty strong reason: https://www.politico.eu/article/terror-trial-in-antwerp-will-test-eu-iran-relations/ https://www.politico.eu/article/terror-trial-in-antwerp-will... TLDR: the Iranian government attempted to commit a terror attack with a "playstation" (a 20kg explosive designed to set off other explosives). They were going to set it off in the middle of this crowd: The EU is not pleased, because, well how many terror attacks have happened on French soil with dozens of victims in the last 10 years now? 5? Of course, the EU is mostly concerned about the reaction of France (such as unlawfully suspending the Shengen accords for 5 years and counting, and that's just their most "in your face" violating of EU policy, it's very far from the only one), but until this sort of stuff stops ...
      - stunt 6y ago
        I agree with that. But to continue above analogy, The U.S. assassinated an Iranian major general in January claiming it was necessary to stop an imminent attack. Israel has similar claims against Iran. That's why they are also assassinating Iranian scientists that are linked to their nuclear program. Iran has similar claims against MEK (Mujahedin-e-Khalq) organization in Paris. MEK was listed as a terrorist organization by the UN, EU, and the U.S. until a few years. Hence the failed attempt from Iran that you linked here. I think assassination of a scientist like that isn't justifiable, for the same reasons that Iran's attempt to target MEK organization isn't justifiable.
        candiodari 6y ago
        The attack on Qasem Soleimani was a military strike against a military target, WHILE this person was orchestrating military strikes against US soldiers. You start shooting at soldiers, they may shoot back, and the bullets coming back may kill you. That he used missiles instead of bullets makes this long-distance, but doesn't change the nature of what happened. This is not what people refer to when they say "assassination". There are very bad actions by the US military. This is not one of them. > Iran has similar claims against MEK (Mujahedin-e-Khalq) organization in Paris ... That they are developing nuclear weapons to use against Iranian civilians? Because that's the claim of the US and Israel, a claim that's essentially validated by the Iranian regime. The mission of this person was to develop and maintain nuclear strike capability ... Netanyahu nor Trump see themselves or their power threatened by an Iranian Nuclear bomb. They see large amounts of civilians threatened by a nuclear weapons, weapons essentially in the hands of racists. So no, I don't think anything about these claims is similar. And that is supposed to give the regime in Iran the authority to carry out terrorist actions, in a crowd of civilians, on foreign soil? Foreign soil where other terrorists have randomly killed hundreds of civilians, again for racist reasons? Good luck with that argument ... All attacks against these weapon development engineers and managers were pinpoint strikes. So no, I don't think the opponents here are very comparable, neither in reasoning nor in methods.
- 77777 6y ago
  Imagine the US and France are in open war. Then what you describe makes a lot of sense. Imagine the ruler of a county calling for your country to be destroyed, and the global community expecting you to accept it as “Sabre rattling” [1] [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/531366667377717248 https://mobile.twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/53136666737771...
chaganated 6y ago
I strongly suspect they dragged us into Libya & Syria through their Epstein blackmail operation. Using the holocaust as a get-out-of-jail free card is wearing pretty thin.
- hideoto 6y ago
  Most tin foil hats do come in antisemitic varieties.
  - polotics 6y ago
    I think it's the other way round: tinfoil looks for targets, and lack of intelligence correlates with lack of originality.
pinknoise 6y ago
Iran made its bed, now they have to sleep in it.
kstenerud 6y ago
This was to be expected. Israel has been keeping tabs on this guy for a very long time. With Trump on the way out and Biden likely to restart the nuclear deal, Israel's and the UE's fear of Iran pushing a clandestine weapons program would be at an all-time high. This actually kills three birds with one stone: - Massive setback in Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions. - Hobbles negotiations for any future nuclear deal with Iran. - Iran's rhetoric following this will likely be helpful in wooing the Saudi crown prince further to the Israeli side, and possibly help bring more Arab nations over (perhaps even Egypt? They've had softer words of late). But it had to happen before Biden takes office. Now Iran will be isolated for another decade, possibly more, which is exactly what Israel's foreign policy has been in this area.
- stunt 6y ago
  > Massive setback in Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions. You really believe that a single scientist was the main brain for the whole project? The mail goal is perhaps to impact negotiations between Iran and Biden's administration. Second possible goal could be a conflict between the U.S. and Iran. All it takes now is someone in the region to attack one of the U.S. bases, or just provide some fake intelligence that Iran is going to retaliate by attacking one of the U.S. interests in the region. Then it will be too late before anyone can proof it wasn't really a response from Iran.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    Iran is well aware that this is a Mossad job. They're not going to start attacking US bases in retaliation - that would just hurt Iran even more. The point of this assassination is to make it harder for Iran to restart even with a softening US stance. Iran obviously has other scientists who can pick up the baton, but don't underestimate the amplifying power of a visionary, and the impact on morale when you lose someone like that. You've also got the gnawing fear factor of anyone who succeeds him, having a giant target on his back. These are classic tried-and-true intelligence service tactics, and they work well.
threatofrain 6y ago
Prior discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25230284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25230284
lota-putty 6y ago
Why does Iran lag while North-Korea* built nuclear weapons & got a seat at global diplomacy round-table? * North-South split, thanks to USSR/USA insecurities.
- burnthrow 6y ago
  > got a seat at global diplomacy round-table What does this mean? Iran is a UN member state.

14 points by nsoonhui 6y ago

Imagine if France just covertly assassinated a US government scientist on US soil while s/he drove home to their family after work and then France just nonchalantly admitted this to the world and acted like it was normal.

personomas 6y ago
It's not like that. Israel and Iran are in a covert war, no? Also, Iran's government has seemingly shown over and over again that they are violent and cannot be trusted with nuclear power. Don't you think? I'm not saying killing this scientist was good or correct, I'm just saying it's not even close to the analogy you provided.
- postingpals 6y ago
  Do you have a source for your second claim?
  - personomas 6y ago
    source? What are you asking for? Can I prove God exists? No. Similarly, I cannot prove such a claim. There have been seemingly plenty of news, I've spoken with Iranians, etc. None of this would be enough to prove anything to someone who can't see the writing on the wall. Nonetheless, I do respect the possibility that I might be wrong, that's why I had written seemingly. But it's so likely at this point, based on what I've seen, observed, understand, that my comment seems good and fair.
    - postingpals 6y ago
      You can tell it's an issue that warrants more than one sentence to come to a conclusion, because there is an entire wikipedia article dedicated to every country's viewpoint on the matter, meaning this is mostly a matter of opinion and cannot be used to justify the murder of a nuclear scientist. (Which I realise you did not justify) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_on_the_nuclear_program_of_Iran
      - personomas 6y ago
        Just because there's debate and different opinions, doesn't mean the truth is inconclusive. Politicians have the same problem as you - where is the proof that Iran can't be trusted? There is no proof, there can't be proof. This leads to endless debate with many different opinions. Just because there's a disagreement involving many sides, doesn't mean that none of the sides are correct. Sometimes, just one of those sides are correct. It is good then when that side pursues the truth, even against all doubt.
  - personomas 6y ago
    Would you really trust a dictatorship with nuclear power?
    - postingpals 6y ago
      President Hassan Rouhani was elected democratically.
      - personomas 6y ago
        Iranians were and are afraid to vote. Not too long ago, in Iran, there were scores of mass protests against their own government, who were then oppressed, subdued, and killed for protesting. Lots and lots of censorship including in the media, internet, and free speech. Sounds like a dictatorship to me.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - jasonvorhe 6y ago
      What about Russia? Or alternatively, what makes democratic nations the better shepards of nuclear weapons? It's not like they're asking their voters before they'd start a nuke. I think the cold war showed us how easy it is to succumb to fear and how close we can get to nuclear annihilation.
      - personomas 6y ago
        Russia is more trustworthy than Iran. Nonetheless, nobody wants Russia to have nuclear weapons, but nobody can do anything about it. They've already have them for a long time. I don't trust anyone with nuclear weapons. It would be lovely if nobody had them. That's realistically not possible right now. As long as countries continue to amass them, there's a need for "more good" countries to keep them. These are almost always democracies. Democracy is generally speaking just safer and better than dictatorship. I'm just going to stop there, and not get into a debate right now of democracy vs dictatorship. Would you rather have the good man with the power, or the bad man? That's the ultimate question simplified. You want the good man with the power, then it's a question of who is good, which would lead to huge endless debate right now.
  - candiodari 6y ago
    I'd say this is pretty strong reason: https://www.politico.eu/article/terror-trial-in-antwerp-will-test-eu-iran-relations/ https://www.politico.eu/article/terror-trial-in-antwerp-will... TLDR: the Iranian government attempted to commit a terror attack with a "playstation" (a 20kg explosive designed to set off other explosives). They were going to set it off in the middle of this crowd: The EU is not pleased, because, well how many terror attacks have happened on French soil with dozens of victims in the last 10 years now? 5? Of course, the EU is mostly concerned about the reaction of France (such as unlawfully suspending the Shengen accords for 5 years and counting, and that's just their most "in your face" violating of EU policy, it's very far from the only one), but until this sort of stuff stops ...
    - stunt 6y ago
      I agree with that. But to continue above analogy, The U.S. assassinated an Iranian major general in January claiming it was necessary to stop an imminent attack. Israel has similar claims against Iran. That's why they are also assassinating Iranian scientists that are linked to their nuclear program. Iran has similar claims against MEK (Mujahedin-e-Khalq) organization in Paris. MEK was listed as a terrorist organization by the UN, EU, and the U.S. until a few years. Hence the failed attempt from Iran that you linked here. I think assassination of a scientist like that isn't justifiable, for the same reasons that Iran's attempt to target MEK organization isn't justifiable.
      - candiodari 6y ago
        The attack on Qasem Soleimani was a military strike against a military target, WHILE this person was orchestrating military strikes against US soldiers. You start shooting at soldiers, they may shoot back, and the bullets coming back may kill you. That he used missiles instead of bullets makes this long-distance, but doesn't change the nature of what happened. This is not what people refer to when they say "assassination". There are very bad actions by the US military. This is not one of them. > Iran has similar claims against MEK (Mujahedin-e-Khalq) organization in Paris ... That they are developing nuclear weapons to use against Iranian civilians? Because that's the claim of the US and Israel, a claim that's essentially validated by the Iranian regime. The mission of this person was to develop and maintain nuclear strike capability ... Netanyahu nor Trump see themselves or their power threatened by an Iranian Nuclear bomb. They see large amounts of civilians threatened by a nuclear weapons, weapons essentially in the hands of racists. So no, I don't think anything about these claims is similar. And that is supposed to give the regime in Iran the authority to carry out terrorist actions, in a crowd of civilians, on foreign soil? Foreign soil where other terrorists have randomly killed hundreds of civilians, again for racist reasons? Good luck with that argument ... All attacks against these weapon development engineers and managers were pinpoint strikes. So no, I don't think the opponents here are very comparable, neither in reasoning nor in methods.
77777 6y ago
Imagine the US and France are in open war. Then what you describe makes a lot of sense. Imagine the ruler of a county calling for your country to be destroyed, and the global community expecting you to accept it as “Sabre rattling” [1] [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/531366667377717248 https://mobile.twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/53136666737771...

chaganated 6y ago

I strongly suspect they dragged us into Libya & Syria through their Epstein blackmail operation. Using the holocaust as a get-out-of-jail free card is wearing pretty thin.

hideoto 6y ago
Most tin foil hats do come in antisemitic varieties.
- polotics 6y ago
  I think it's the other way round: tinfoil looks for targets, and lack of intelligence correlates with lack of originality.

pinknoise 6y ago

Iran made its bed, now they have to sleep in it.

kstenerud 6y ago

This was to be expected. Israel has been keeping tabs on this guy for a very long time. With Trump on the way out and Biden likely to restart the nuclear deal, Israel's and the UE's fear of Iran pushing a clandestine weapons program would be at an all-time high. This actually kills three birds with one stone: - Massive setback in Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions. - Hobbles negotiations for any future nuclear deal with Iran. - Iran's rhetoric following this will likely be helpful in wooing the Saudi crown prince further to the Israeli side, and possibly help bring more Arab nations over (perhaps even Egypt? They've had softer words of late). But it had to happen before Biden takes office. Now Iran will be isolated for another decade, possibly more, which is exactly what Israel's foreign policy has been in this area.

stunt 6y ago
> Massive setback in Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions. You really believe that a single scientist was the main brain for the whole project? The mail goal is perhaps to impact negotiations between Iran and Biden's administration. Second possible goal could be a conflict between the U.S. and Iran. All it takes now is someone in the region to attack one of the U.S. bases, or just provide some fake intelligence that Iran is going to retaliate by attacking one of the U.S. interests in the region. Then it will be too late before anyone can proof it wasn't really a response from Iran.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  Iran is well aware that this is a Mossad job. They're not going to start attacking US bases in retaliation - that would just hurt Iran even more. The point of this assassination is to make it harder for Iran to restart even with a softening US stance. Iran obviously has other scientists who can pick up the baton, but don't underestimate the amplifying power of a visionary, and the impact on morale when you lose someone like that. You've also got the gnawing fear factor of anyone who succeeds him, having a giant target on his back. These are classic tried-and-true intelligence service tactics, and they work well.

threatofrain 6y ago

Prior discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25230284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25230284

lota-putty 6y ago

Why does Iran lag while North-Korea* built nuclear weapons & got a seat at global diplomacy round-table? * North-South split, thanks to USSR/USA insecurities.

burnthrow 6y ago
> got a seat at global diplomacy round-table What does this mean? Iran is a UN member state.