6 ms·

It's absolutely infuriating that no one is being prosecuted over this. Meanwhile, Kalief Browder was jailed without trial for three years — for allegedly steal

It's absolutely infuriating that no one is being prosecuted over this. Meanwhile, Kalief Browder was jailed without trial for three years — for allegedly stealing a backpack. We truly do have two justice systems.

leetrout 6y ago
This is why people say we have a legal system not a justice system.
zug_zug 6y ago
I think it's pretty easy to act outraged and say "somebody should be punished," and most people I know, and most politicians, do. As for actually doing research, thinking about it, and bothering up to come up with a proposal... I guess nobody actually cares THAT much.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  You say "doing research, thinking about it, and bothering to come up with a proposal" as if the only obstacle is that no one has figured out how to bring these people to justice. That's not what's happening here. These are people who use their immense power and resources to warp our bureaucracy to protect and enrich themselves. They don't face real consequences because the system is designed to shield them from accountability.
  - zug_zug 6y ago
    >>> They don't face real consequences Who's they? It's so easy to hand-wave about "them" and "the system," but I don't see how you're helping people unless you're helping to make concrete proposals or helping to identify specific policies by specific people that need to be punished and/or prevented in the future.
    - pksebben 6y ago
      the board and corporate governance of companies should be held criminally liable for actions they oversee. You can get locked up for life under the kingpin act. Let's make that applicable here.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  A justice system that applies equally to everyone should not require immense effort from private unrelated individuals to do it's job.
  - zug_zug 6y ago
    I'd like to live in that world too, but since we don't I think it's reasonable to ask for suggestions that apply to the world we DO live in.
    - marcinzm 6y ago
      Telling people to not point out that the world is broken is not how you fix the world. Accepting there is a problem is the first step to a solution.
      - zug_zug 6y ago
        I agree. However, in the case of the opioid epidemic I think we're way past the stage of identifying that there is a problem. The next step with any issue (black lives matter, big bank bailout) is to take a complex systemic issue and find specific, realistic changes that can help with the problem, before people get apathetic/resign.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- bleepblorp 6y ago
  What sort of 'proposal' do you suggest to deter unethical business practices and encourage the prosecution of white collar crime under existing laws? The problem with white collar crime isn't a lack of ideas, it's a lack of will among prosecutors and judges to punish it.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  > As for actually doing research, thinking about it, and bothering up to come up with a proposal... I guess nobody actually cares THAT much. Spare us the snark, it's not helpful. You should know that one cannot just draw up a proposal to bring criminal charges; only a very small number of people have the legal authority and resources to do that.
  - zug_zug 6y ago
    Well I mean that pretty sincerely. I think people find it fun to be outraged. I don't think people genuinely care enough to learn who the involved parties are, and make a sincere proposal on what went wrong.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Honestly, I have no idea why you would think that, or why you would expect "why don't you come up with a proposal?" to be met with anything other than incredulous fury. People come up with proposals on how to fix the system all of the time. If you haven't heard of them, that's due to a gap in your reading, not because proposals don't exist. The issue comes down to actually getting people in power who want to make these kinds of changes, something that doesn't happen very often.
      - zug_zug 6y ago
        So then do you have the name of who in particular should be jailed for this opioid epidemic?
        ashtonkem 6y ago
        Richard Sackler, for starters. He's the former chairman of Purdue Pharmaceuticals, and investigative journalists have uncovered a boat load of paperwork showing that he personally pushed for marketing tactics that would result in addiction and death. The sudden exit of the entire Sackler family from the board and executive positions in 2018 reeks of wrongdoing too, especially since reports indicate that Richard continued to call the shots after resigning. Given that Purdue Pharma recently pleaded guilty to criminal charges, I suspect that various proprietorial offices should have enough evidence to get a subpoena of his personal records. But again, tons of people have researched this stuff. The problem is that I cannot personally bring a criminal charge against Richard Sackler. Which is why your "people just want to be mad on the internet" attitude is extremely obnoxious. The problem isn't that what needs to be done in these cases isn't known, the problem is that the people who have the power continue to do what we don't want them to do.
rdiddly 6y ago
And George Floyd got the death penalty. Seems like if someone makes $46 million (arbitrary figure) from something as shitty as this, they ought to lose $46 million, either by paying back $46M, or by losing something that's worth $46M to them. A leg? A child? Hey offer them some choices. Getting a bit Saudi-Arabia-ish here, but seems like the law would look, if not like this, then more like this, if it weren't written by the guy who made the $46 million.
TheCoelacanth 6y ago
How is this not murder? They are literally paying someone money to kill someone.
- ncmncm 6y ago
  Legally, I'm guessing manslaughter. With enough count (thousands!) the distinction fades. There are laws on the books to charge individual officers for corporate actions, practically never used. They could have been used on paint company executives, who had forestalled a ban, in the '40s, on a promise to phase out lead, and absolutely did not, and tobacco executives, who actively sought to addict children. Arguably, sugar industry executives merit such treatment for actively suppressing research indicating sugar has been directly responsible for millions of deaths, and for heavily marketing to children. But any bozo who shoots up a bus station apparently merits overwhelmingly more attention, so the executives directly responsible get to retire unbothered to their yachts.
refurb 6y ago
Punished for what? Illegally promoting an addictive opioid? Purdue is being prosecuted. Or do you mean prosecuted for coming up with an idea that is in poor taste but was never actually implemented?

leetrout 6y ago

This is why people say we have a legal system not a justice system.

zug_zug 6y ago

I think it's pretty easy to act outraged and say "somebody should be punished," and most people I know, and most politicians, do. As for actually doing research, thinking about it, and bothering up to come up with a proposal... I guess nobody actually cares THAT much.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
You say "doing research, thinking about it, and bothering to come up with a proposal" as if the only obstacle is that no one has figured out how to bring these people to justice. That's not what's happening here. These are people who use their immense power and resources to warp our bureaucracy to protect and enrich themselves. They don't face real consequences because the system is designed to shield them from accountability.
- zug_zug 6y ago
  >>> They don't face real consequences Who's they? It's so easy to hand-wave about "them" and "the system," but I don't see how you're helping people unless you're helping to make concrete proposals or helping to identify specific policies by specific people that need to be punished and/or prevented in the future.
  - pksebben 6y ago
    the board and corporate governance of companies should be held criminally liable for actions they oversee. You can get locked up for life under the kingpin act. Let's make that applicable here.
marcinzm 6y ago
A justice system that applies equally to everyone should not require immense effort from private unrelated individuals to do it's job.
- zug_zug 6y ago
  I'd like to live in that world too, but since we don't I think it's reasonable to ask for suggestions that apply to the world we DO live in.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    Telling people to not point out that the world is broken is not how you fix the world. Accepting there is a problem is the first step to a solution.
    - zug_zug 6y ago
      I agree. However, in the case of the opioid epidemic I think we're way past the stage of identifying that there is a problem. The next step with any issue (black lives matter, big bank bailout) is to take a complex systemic issue and find specific, realistic changes that can help with the problem, before people get apathetic/resign.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
bleepblorp 6y ago
What sort of 'proposal' do you suggest to deter unethical business practices and encourage the prosecution of white collar crime under existing laws? The problem with white collar crime isn't a lack of ideas, it's a lack of will among prosecutors and judges to punish it.
ashtonkem 6y ago
> As for actually doing research, thinking about it, and bothering up to come up with a proposal... I guess nobody actually cares THAT much. Spare us the snark, it's not helpful. You should know that one cannot just draw up a proposal to bring criminal charges; only a very small number of people have the legal authority and resources to do that.
- zug_zug 6y ago
  Well I mean that pretty sincerely. I think people find it fun to be outraged. I don't think people genuinely care enough to learn who the involved parties are, and make a sincere proposal on what went wrong.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Honestly, I have no idea why you would think that, or why you would expect "why don't you come up with a proposal?" to be met with anything other than incredulous fury. People come up with proposals on how to fix the system all of the time. If you haven't heard of them, that's due to a gap in your reading, not because proposals don't exist. The issue comes down to actually getting people in power who want to make these kinds of changes, something that doesn't happen very often.
    - zug_zug 6y ago
      So then do you have the name of who in particular should be jailed for this opioid epidemic?
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Richard Sackler, for starters. He's the former chairman of Purdue Pharmaceuticals, and investigative journalists have uncovered a boat load of paperwork showing that he personally pushed for marketing tactics that would result in addiction and death. The sudden exit of the entire Sackler family from the board and executive positions in 2018 reeks of wrongdoing too, especially since reports indicate that Richard continued to call the shots after resigning. Given that Purdue Pharma recently pleaded guilty to criminal charges, I suspect that various proprietorial offices should have enough evidence to get a subpoena of his personal records. But again, tons of people have researched this stuff. The problem is that I cannot personally bring a criminal charge against Richard Sackler. Which is why your "people just want to be mad on the internet" attitude is extremely obnoxious. The problem isn't that what needs to be done in these cases isn't known, the problem is that the people who have the power continue to do what we don't want them to do.

rdiddly 6y ago

And George Floyd got the death penalty. Seems like if someone makes $46 million (arbitrary figure) from something as shitty as this, they ought to lose $46 million, either by paying back $46M, or by losing something that's worth $46M to them. A leg? A child? Hey offer them some choices. Getting a bit Saudi-Arabia-ish here, but seems like the law would look, if not like this, then more like this, if it weren't written by the guy who made the $46 million.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago

How is this not murder? They are literally paying someone money to kill someone.

ncmncm 6y ago
Legally, I'm guessing manslaughter. With enough count (thousands!) the distinction fades. There are laws on the books to charge individual officers for corporate actions, practically never used. They could have been used on paint company executives, who had forestalled a ban, in the '40s, on a promise to phase out lead, and absolutely did not, and tobacco executives, who actively sought to addict children. Arguably, sugar industry executives merit such treatment for actively suppressing research indicating sugar has been directly responsible for millions of deaths, and for heavily marketing to children. But any bozo who shoots up a bus station apparently merits overwhelmingly more attention, so the executives directly responsible get to retire unbothered to their yachts.

refurb 6y ago

Punished for what? Illegally promoting an addictive opioid? Purdue is being prosecuted. Or do you mean prosecuted for coming up with an idea that is in poor taste but was never actually implemented?