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I personally find current implications and use cases a bit niche, and the current hype suggesting the M1 is pitching a no-hitter a bit dubious. For one, it onl

by Rapzid 6y ago

I personally find current implications and use cases a bit niche, and the current hype suggesting the M1 is pitching a no-hitter a bit dubious. For one, it only supports 16GB or RAM ATM. That's.. Not a lot. Maybe they only did it for batter life. Maybe they will allow more in the future. But you can only get an M1 with what Apple sells you, and the future means comparing to what's available from AMD and Intel at that time as well. No support for discrete GPU. They have some onboard support for ML workloads(which might actually be inflating their benchmark numbers a bit) but it's only comparable to entry level GPUs apparently(sub 200). Most reviews seem overly focused on Geekbench results and seem very lacking in intensive real world workloads(like photoshop, after effects, etc etc). Cinabench seems to tell a different story ATM. The latest top-end AMD mobile CPUs seem to smoke it on multi-core perf. And the new 5800U is not far off in single or multi-core perf. Will need to wait and see how real world perf actually compares across the board. Overall I see this as a first step with some impressive FUTURE implications for the industry, but it's not putting all the competition in its shadow. Apple will have flexibility controlling their chip designs and, perhaps more importantly, they stand to save billions moving away from Intel. It's telling though that the M1 is limited to the 13" MBP ATM, and I'd give it a pass for my current processing needs. Squarely in early adopter zone.

the_only_law 6y ago
> For one, it only supports 16GB or RAM ATM. That's.. Not a lot. Maybe they only did it for batter life. Maybe they will allow more in the future. But you can only get an M1 with what Apple sells you, and the future means comparing to what's available from AMD and Intel at that time as well. This is my main concern. I’m still on the edge about getting an M1 device since I plan on mainly using it for iOS stuff and casual usage and have plenty of PCs for my hacking ventures, but I’m used to having 64GB and would hate to join the ranks of people who complain about Electron ;)
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  Tests show you get excellent performance even with just 8 GB because at this point the hard drive access is almost fast enough to be RAM.
gjsman-1000 6y ago
The arguments you mention have been done to death already online.
- totalZero 6y ago
  Oh? All I've seen is a lot of oohs and aahs for M1. The level of hype is so over the top as to seem almost inorganic, considering how hard it is to test the device before buying it under present conditions. Just my honest take on what I've seen on HN and other places.
  - ksec 6y ago
    Yes the hype is over the top with all sort of wrong / misinformation spread all over the place including on HN. But most of those mentioned; Photoshop, Video Editing, and even Code compiling has been well tested already.
girvo 6y ago
I’m just glad that both Apple and AMD are taking Intel to task in the laptop CPU world.
lalaithion 6y ago
On RAM: This is their low end chip; there will likely be another chip within a year supporting more ram. Nevertheless, there are reports from programmers and video editors that suggest that the 16 GB on M1 go a lot further than 16 GB on Intel. No hard technical reasons on why that would be. (Also, anecdotally, I don't understand why HN keeps saying 16GB of RAM isn't a lot. I just upgraded my home desktop to 16 GB, and only because I also upgraded my screen from 1080 to 1440, and videogames were dipping below 60fps. Sure, at work my desktop has much more RAM, but for a laptop? 16 GB seems fine.) On GPU: There's been some speculation that the eGPU's don't work due to driver support, not hardware issues. Once again, I wouldn't be surprised if the higher end chips in 2021 have a dedicated GPU inside the Pro and Mini. On real world workloads: See the above about anecdotes about programmers and video editors. I don't know if there's any great sources here besides reading twitter and trying to avoid biased fanboys. I'm waiting for more of the languages and tools I use to become fully supported on the M1 before I bite the bullet, but I'm finding fewer and fewer reasons to be skeptical of the performance numbers...
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  I have heard that the difference comes from software. Apple endorses a reference counting garbage collector, whereas many windows programs (.NET programs for example) use a tracing garbage collector. In result, native macos (and ios) programs need less memory. As macOS is also built on the same memory discipline, it is more memory efficient.
simonbarker87 6y ago
The best real world example Ive heard of so far is rendering an 8K video on a MacBook on just battery power. Base MacBook Pro with M1 did it and used 17% of its battery, intel MacBook Pro couldn’t get through the render before its battery was 100% depleted. I can’t link to it as it was discussed on the ATP podcast but those guys are pretty good sources.

by Rapzid 6y ago

the_only_law 6y ago

> For one, it only supports 16GB or RAM ATM. That's.. Not a lot. Maybe they only did it for batter life. Maybe they will allow more in the future. But you can only get an M1 with what Apple sells you, and the future means comparing to what's available from AMD and Intel at that time as well. This is my main concern. I’m still on the edge about getting an M1 device since I plan on mainly using it for iOS stuff and casual usage and have plenty of PCs for my hacking ventures, but I’m used to having 64GB and would hate to join the ranks of people who complain about Electron ;)

socialdemocrat 6y ago
Tests show you get excellent performance even with just 8 GB because at this point the hard drive access is almost fast enough to be RAM.

gjsman-1000 6y ago

The arguments you mention have been done to death already online.

totalZero 6y ago
Oh? All I've seen is a lot of oohs and aahs for M1. The level of hype is so over the top as to seem almost inorganic, considering how hard it is to test the device before buying it under present conditions. Just my honest take on what I've seen on HN and other places.
- ksec 6y ago
  Yes the hype is over the top with all sort of wrong / misinformation spread all over the place including on HN. But most of those mentioned; Photoshop, Video Editing, and even Code compiling has been well tested already.

girvo 6y ago

I’m just glad that both Apple and AMD are taking Intel to task in the laptop CPU world.

lalaithion 6y ago

On RAM: This is their low end chip; there will likely be another chip within a year supporting more ram. Nevertheless, there are reports from programmers and video editors that suggest that the 16 GB on M1 go a lot further than 16 GB on Intel. No hard technical reasons on why that would be. (Also, anecdotally, I don't understand why HN keeps saying 16GB of RAM isn't a lot. I just upgraded my home desktop to 16 GB, and only because I also upgraded my screen from 1080 to 1440, and videogames were dipping below 60fps. Sure, at work my desktop has much more RAM, but for a laptop? 16 GB seems fine.) On GPU: There's been some speculation that the eGPU's don't work due to driver support, not hardware issues. Once again, I wouldn't be surprised if the higher end chips in 2021 have a dedicated GPU inside the Pro and Mini. On real world workloads: See the above about anecdotes about programmers and video editors. I don't know if there's any great sources here besides reading twitter and trying to avoid biased fanboys. I'm waiting for more of the languages and tools I use to become fully supported on the M1 before I bite the bullet, but I'm finding fewer and fewer reasons to be skeptical of the performance numbers...

terminalcommand 6y ago
I have heard that the difference comes from software. Apple endorses a reference counting garbage collector, whereas many windows programs (.NET programs for example) use a tracing garbage collector. In result, native macos (and ios) programs need less memory. As macOS is also built on the same memory discipline, it is more memory efficient.

simonbarker87 6y ago

The best real world example Ive heard of so far is rendering an 8K video on a MacBook on just battery power. Base MacBook Pro with M1 did it and used 17% of its battery, intel MacBook Pro couldn’t get through the render before its battery was 100% depleted. I can’t link to it as it was discussed on the ATP podcast but those guys are pretty good sources.